MORE LIKE DE-GENERATIVE AI, AMIRITE? - EP 96

Cappo (00:18) G'day and welcome to Oceanic Gaming Radio. This is episode 96. It's the eighth of the seventh. It's 7 .07 PM. We're coming live from Perth, Western Australia. We've got GrizzlyGaming86, myself, Captain Perth as always, and joining us is a very special guest, Weppen. Welcome to the show, mate. Weapon (00:38) Yeah, glad to be here. Big, long time watcher, long time fan. Glad to be on the show. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (00:38) Hey! Cappo (00:43) Yeah. mate. Absolutely stoked to have you here. And for those listening, wonder who the fuck is weapon? What the hell's going on here? Well, we got a bit of news for you guys. So basically, weapon is leading and co -hosting a brand new eSports podcast. I'll let weapon kind of get into that, but it's going to be sort of broadcast and what not under a collective banner, kind of like an oceanic gaming podcast banner. which we will also be under the same roof oven. We basically, this is like, we kind of like, I don't know, we just, we're family, you know, and we're just announcing this shit is cool. So, man, absolutely. I mean, when was the, I can't even remember the first one. It would have been at least eight years ago. Surely. Greeeeeeezly (01:19) We're family now, aren't we? We are. It is very cool. Weapon (01:24) Yeah, yeah, because we've known each other for a while, right? It's like what, like RFLAN? That was years ago. Yeah, yeah, like RF -960, we could probably figure it out. Cappo (01:38) Yeah, but. Greeeeeeezly (01:39) I think my first RFLN was 62, but I think you guys were doing it before me, I believe, for a couple of, a few years before that would have been happening. Cappo (01:46) Yeah. So we've got a story to history and then obviously through, you know, many, many meetups and, and, you know, streams and all the rest of it web. So, it's, it's only natural that we'd slowly gravitate back towards one another. Right. I guess so. Weapon (02:00) Yeah, yeah, it had to happen eventually. All right, let's talk about it. So yeah, hit up these guys really keen to get something happening under the same banner because I love what you guys do. But what myself and my co -caster Max do is so we were League of Legends casters. We've been working together on League of Legends cast for like a long time, like five years at least. So we've been around the East what's seen for a long time. Greeeeeeezly (02:01) So what is it? What's the product, mate? Give us the spiel. Weapon (02:29) We're going to be doing some events coming up in August, which I'm keen for. Then we've got Space Jump, which will be happening in a week's time or so. But yeah, we've been working in eSports for a long time. We know a lot of people on the scene, and there's no one giving you the news and perspectives from the oceanic perspective. So that's what we wanted to do. We've already got that one episode out, and we had an absolute blast recording it. Learned a lot. And our guest was actually Jai Richardson, who's, if anyone knows that cricket. Yeah. Yeah. Mr. Jar. Yeah. If you've, if you've been in the LCO chat, you would have seen JZ Jar as well as Rocket League. So like, yeah, he's, he's around, but if you don't know him from the e -sports, you'll know him from cricket. Cause apparently he's a big deal in cricket. I like, I don't follow real sports, so I feel bad for the guy, but like, apparently he's, he's well known. Greeeeeeezly (02:58) yeah, GZ, GZ legend, cricket legend. Cappo (03:03) Yeah. Yep. Yeah, no, 100%. Greeeeeeezly (03:21) Hey, hey, we're League of Legends in OCE, mate. Is the scene pretty large? Is it, is it a bit, a large, competitive scene for League? Weapon (03:24) Yeah. I mean, it's the most popular eSport, right? So like, yeah, Australia is kind of weird one because it's always been a counter -strike country. We've got like our dudes in like FlyQuest who are over in, I think they bootcamp in Europe pretty much full time, come back to compete in a few scattered OCE tournaments and then just crush everyone and go back to Europe. But they're doing us proud. So like, we've kind of got that like, that upper crust of like OCE CS teams and then like, Greeeeeeezly (03:54) Hell yeah, dude. Weapon (04:01) There's a whole thing where OCE league teams have to go through South East, South East Asian teams to even get to international. So, yeah, yeah, yeah. Greeeeeeezly (04:07) Yep, same with Dota. Yeah, well, SEA is all in that one pool. And pretty much Aussies, there's no Aussie teams. They all end up going to the Australian Dota talent end up in other random teams. Yeah, getting scuffed. Yeah, yeah. Weapon (04:12) dude, me. Yeah, like our we and stuff now mighty and actually because it's mighty and I work on a friend of ours mighty who we all met at our plan. We've been talking about Dota like doing some Dota stuff through space jump. So, yeah, yeah, we want to get you on the mic for that. Greeeeeeezly (04:29) mate, get me, I'm keen, eh? Get me involved in that. I actually cast a Dota with Mighty at RFLAN 63, I think, back in the day. So a lot of fun. Yeah, he was just doing the play -by -play and I was more analytical, but yeah, he's all over it, mate. Well, where can they find you? What's your branding? What's your name? How do these people find your podcast? Cappo (04:36) Yeah. Weapon (04:38) Yeah! Yeah. All right, so where you can find us on Spotify, which is we're mostly focusing on Spotify where and so look for ENT dash eSports news Oceania. And then you can also find us on Twitter on the same thing. So there is also the website, which I need to just I need to find it. Yeah, yeah, thank you. Yeah. Much appreciated. Greeeeeeezly (05:03) Mm -hmm. We'll bang it in the show notes, mate, of this episode, won't we, Capo? We'll bang it in there. So, I'm sure there's a few listeners out there that enjoy their esports, specifically League of Legends. Are you going to be covering other esports as well, WEP, or is this just focusing on the League of Legends side? Cappo (05:16) Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'll make a note. Yeah. Weapon (05:30) Yeah, 100%. So we actually did a lot of stuff about the London Major for Rocket League, which just wrapped up. It was basically wrapping up as we did the show. So we didn't know the results. It's now all finished. And it was a good showing for the OCE teams, actually. Power showed up. They're kind of our OCE super team in Rocket League. And then we had the Chiefs go as well. So Max is a big Rocket League guy. If you know Rocket League and OCE, you know Max Formal von Neumann. Greeeeeeezly (05:34) cool. Yeah. Weapon (05:59) He's just been the guy for a long time. So yeah, we have a lot to cover on Rocket League and we kind of like between us and between the guests we bring on, we're hopefully going to get Pike, the host of the LCO, who's also a long time co -caster of mine. We hope to cover a lot of different e -sports and hopefully there's something there for everyone who enjoys a bit of e -sports. We got to get you on for some Dota, Grizz. Yeah, TI time, you're on there. See if we can rope in that. Maybe we can... Greeeeeeezly (06:18) Cool. Love it. Yeah. I'm keen, mate. I'm keen. Yeah. I'm very excited for the, I'm very excited for the international. Yeah. Hell yeah, dude. Did you? Right. There's actually a lot of casting talent that are Aussies in Dota, which is interesting. Yeah. They ended up filtering their way through. Yeah. Then there was a bunch. There's a bunch that went through heaps of drama. Yeah. Cappo (06:22) Yeah. Eh. Weapon (06:28) draw on that connection. Because I used to work with that long time ago, back when she was like in the amateur scene. Yeah. Cappo (06:33) Very red. Weapon (06:37) yeah, it's like capitalist, I think is Aussie. Cappo (06:38) Yeah, big time. There's a couple of guys. Yeah, there's a few. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (06:46) I reson'd. There's a few amateur ones that are doing stuff, isn't there, Cap? Yeah. Weapon (06:46) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (06:51) Yeah, but I think one thing I listened to the entire episode and it is premium quality stuff. A Ripper episode. And I think the cool thing is, you don't have to even be an esports fan to really get something out of it. Because I mean, I don't watch an awful lot of esports anymore at all. But, you know, you guys touch on even just kind of broadly just mindsets, and even the financials behind esports and and even looking at things like, you know, I guess cross analyzing, I guess, kind of movements in esports and what's, you know, sort of suppressing players in the oceanic scene and stuff. And I found it all really interesting. And so yeah, it's not just kind of, I guess some people might think, it's just going to be like match results. But it's far from that. It's it's it's really good content is worth the listen. So if you're interested, check the show notes, we'll dump it in there. Greeeeeeezly (07:30) Mmm. Cappo (07:46) and yeah, keep an eye out for weapon. I'm sure this won't be the last time we get weapon to give the old end, end podcast a plug. So yeah. Greeeeeeezly (07:51) Mm -hmm. Weapon (07:54) Give it a shout and we want to do the same for you guys as well. yeah. Yeah. Shout outs to Moosey. Greeeeeeezly (07:54) The artwork is wicked too. We should, you should probably explain what, you should probably explain what the end and what it stands for here, I think is. Okay, right, right. Cappo (08:00) Yeah. Weapon (08:04) So we actually don't know, because we kind of came up, we decided that it had an E and an N in it, right? So that's the eSports news. T probably stands for talk, but we have yet to really lock it down. Right now it's just N because you guys are ogre. That's all my thinking was. It probably stands for eSports news talk. That's fine, it's serviceable. But I do have to give a shout out, like you said, Moosey. I think you're in the chat still. Dude, you've killed it with this logo. Cappo (08:06) Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (08:14) Mm -hmm. All right. Esports news talk. I like that dude. I think that's pretty good, man. It's pretty good, yeah. yeah, Moosey. Yep. Cappo (08:20) Yeah. Yeah, pretty good. Yeah. Yep. Weapon (08:34) If you don't like listen to the show, please, because we're very proud of it. But even if you don't listen to the show, at least go to the Spotify page and to the yeah, check out the logo. It rules. He killed it. Cappo (08:42) Go check out the logo. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a ripper actually when I, cause I loaded it up on my car cause I listened to it in and out of work and, yeah, two logos cause they're facing opposite directions, but in all my cars, like a heads up display, they, the, the, when I opened up Spotify, it looked like the two banners were looking at each other. It was so funny. I needed to take a photo. I forgot, but yeah, it was good. Really, really good. Greeeeeeezly (08:45) Mm -hmm. Weapon (08:50) Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (09:04) Yeah. Weapon (09:06) What a moment. Yeah, post that in the group chat. Yeah. No worries. Cappo (09:09) But yeah, weapon, thanks for joining us. May really appreciate you jumping in and saying, Hey, let us, let us know where we can get some more excellent oceanic fricking podcasting content, baby. Cause there's not enough out there. Weapon (09:20) Yeah, and I probably should say that's the other thing. So the plan, because you guys are bi -weekly, of course, is that we will be uploading on the off weeks. So follow the Spotify every week. Hopefully there'll be some OGR related content on your podcasts. Yeah. Thanks so much, guys. I'll leave you to it. Have a good episode. Catch you later. Greeeeeeezly (09:27) Oy, that's it. Cappo (09:29) Always got Satellite today. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Love it. Yeah, no worries, mate. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it. Yeah. Cheers, mate. Peace out. Greeeeeeezly (09:37) Awesome mate, love that. Thanks, WEP. See you, Matt. Bye. Cappo (09:47) Alrighty Grizz, it's just us now. Greeeeeeezly (09:49) Dude, my scene transition worked perfectly. Fuck. Look at that. All over it, man. Cappo (09:52) Did it? Hell yeah. I mean, this, you know, we're pretty good at this now. Well, I mean, mate, first off, how you been? What's been happening? Give me the rundown. Greeeeeeezly (10:02) Time is a weird soup. Have you ever listened to Critical Role, Cap? Sorry, this is a tangent already. Cappo (10:06) I've, I listened to the first couple of episodes and, the first episodes of fucking rough, man, have you heard the audio quality of those things? They fucking suck. I couldn't even, I couldn't even start. Greeeeeeezly (10:14) Yeah, I did. Yeah. That's when they, they would do, that was streaming to like three people back then. Like that, that was literally just, I think it was like a snowball. Yeah. Snowball in the middle of a room. Anyway, I want to get on that. Dude, it's time just just flying by right now, but I'm having a great time cap. Lots of music. I played another tribute festival on the weekend on Friday night. Did silver chair set of silver chair. So that was a very good fun. We did the, all the silver chair classics, like the year 2001, you know, that one cap. Cappo (10:19) Yeah. Mental. It sounds like shit. Greeeeeeezly (10:44) gonna give it all to you in the year. Yep. That one then we did tomorrow and about freak and a bunch of stuff. So it was very fun. in between that a lot of Elden Ring capo, which I will, we'll talk about a little bit later, but, yep. Yep. If things are good, what about you, mate? What's been happening? Have you had sick, sick family, sick, sick children? Cappo (10:46) Yeah, yeah. hell yeah man. Yeah. Bye then. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Love it. That's exciting, mate. Yeah. I did. Yeah. Yeah. Last week, both Mir and Ted got a bit crook and then I managed to dodge it somehow. I get a little bit, a little bit sick, but it's just that superior fucking immune system. You know, that fucking, I don't know. I put it down to, sorry. Greeeeeeezly (11:24) yeah. Don't get hammered by it. You don't get hammered by it, mate. Cappo (11:31) Yeah, I put it down to probably just my new active lifestyle, eating well and taking a multivitamin every day. All right. I'm going to say it. I reckon it's just, it's all coming out. It's all up. We'll sort it. So, but yeah, look, ultimately things have been pretty good. Just really busy. I feel like I kind of just regurgitate the same shit every week, but legitimately like my job's like the busiest I've ever been. And being a dad's like also, you know, another level of busy. that you just kind of don't realize it till you become a parent. I haven't bought any new games I've played. I bought a new... Now, fuck, what was it called? Probably should save it for How's Your Gaming Going, but I did buy a... I purchased a new video game. Now, I can't remember what it's called. It's like this old Morrowind -esque video game. What was it called? Dread Illusion. Greeeeeeezly (12:04) Have you bought any new toys, Cap, or any new games, mate? Ooh, okay. shit. Cappo (12:30) so that's going to get queued up after I finish, the old, what do you call it? The old shadow of the tree. Greeeeeeezly (12:34) Dread illusion. I actually have put my Belladose Gate 3 on a mode to play through on on pause while I want to finish this Elden Ring DLC. So my plan is my plan is to pick that back up mate. Yep. Cappo (12:43) Yeah, I don't blame you Yeah. Yeah. I love that. But, but look, other than that, not really, not really any toys. yeah, honestly, not an awful lot. We, Mia's going to Singapore tomorrow, so it's gonna, gonna be fricking lads time. Greeeeeeezly (12:59) yeah. Is that, dude. So am I still coming over for a heap of fucking tins or what? Does Mia listen to this podcast? Cappo (13:09) I don't know if I'll be having that many because being a solo parent and having a hangover is probably one of the worst things ever. Especially when they're young. Not fun. Greeeeeeezly (13:10) Hmm. Yes. Nah, look. I understand that, mate. I actually have a very busy weekend. But maybe Space Jump on Saturday. Kat, maybe I'll come to that. Come say hello. Cappo (13:27) Yeah. Yeah, and that's something that's worth chatting about because yeah, if you are listening to this podcast on the so that what is the date? It's the the 13th and the 14th of July 2034. There is an event going on at 99 Aberdeen Street, I think in Perth City. There's like a Rocket League tournament so part of this. Festival called re Perth and I think they're like reusing old venues that just basically have been abandoned and stuff like that In Perth. Yeah, and so they've got this big rocket league thing going on in one of these venues on 99 Aberdeen Street So I'm gonna go and check it out on on the Saturday. I believe it starts At 2 p For a couple of hours and I'm just gonna take Ted down because we're gonna we're not really gonna have too much to do So I thought I'll take Ted down. He can get his first taste of an eSports event. Hopefully I plant the seeds for him to be a Greeeeeeezly (14:01) That's cool, man. That seems cool. Cappo (14:24) big time eSports player, you know, just slowly drip feed that. And then one day, I mean, obviously, he's just going to be paying for my time because if you make a big cash. Greeeeeeezly (14:26) Yeah. Start training them while they're young, mate. Because when they're young is when they've got all those really high reflex, you know, and all that kind of shit, dude. Cappo (14:38) yeah. Actually, I tell you what, that was one thing that that they were talking about in the in the ENT, the ENT podcast was how reflexes affect players. And if there's like a there's a significant balance between, you know, like player seniority and experience and how much that has weight on not needing reflexes, if that makes sense. Greeeeeeezly (14:48) yeah. Cappo (15:05) really interesting chat definitely worth this again go and listen that podcast is really good. I really enjoyed it. But yeah, so we're gonna do that on Saturday. So if you're floating around, you want to come and say good day to me and my my clone that I made. Come and say good day and maybe grizz if he rocks up. So that'd be pretty cool. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (15:09) Mm -hmm. Yeah, maybe yeah, yeah, we'll see I have to speak to the wife Maybe I'll take the kids with me because I think the wife is working so that could be a good opportunity Yeah, get down there Cappo (15:29) Yeah, something to do. We could always, we could even like, I don't know, go out my way, we could catch the trade in or something. Greeeeeeezly (15:34) Fuck! Sounds good that I can have a beverage in the city with you, mate. Cappo (15:38) Yeah, exactly right. And then the, then the girls could watch Ted. Yes, this is going up really well. It's working out perfect. but yeah, anyways, so that's kind of like, life at the moment, I suppose. So Mia's away in Singapore till the following Sunday. So yeah, just basically looking after Ted doing the, the daycare drops and then work and then come back and then bedtime routines. So roots repeat for a few days and then, yeah, you know, Mia will be back and then. Greeeeeeezly (15:44) Actually, that will work out, dude. That will work out. Big time. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (16:06) We've got a, we've actually got a holiday coming up next month to Bali, which I'm pretty excited for on the 14th. So yeah, so I have to do the math on whether I'm going to be away for a podcast, but we'll figure out what we're going to do. And yeah, watch this space. It should be fine. But yeah, that was pretty freaking good. Gris, we're actually just about to sign the contract. We actually pending the final document for our Greeeeeeezly (16:10) Wee. a little international fiasco flight. Yep, easy mate. Cappo (16:35) Our extension on a house to you know, basically put another but another house on top of our house That's pretty exciting. We're pretty keen can't wait Mike the do -blow story Can't wait gonna be good. But yeah, so you go gris. Well, look this frickin dive in mate cuz it's been a big old long start the episode so Let's dive in. So look firstly just want to say a big. Thank you to our wonderful listeners Whether you're watching live on Monday fortnight fortnightly Greeeeeeezly (16:44) Double story, mate. Look out. Let's do it. Cappo (17:05) from 7 PM AWS T you can listen to this podcast alongside some legends such as pixel nine towels, by the way, how you go, mate? Haven't seen you in a while. Hope you well. in phono, good day, mate. And then Ari J as well. also got blindsided moose and secose. Yeah. You can join all those bloody legends, just by going to twitch .tv slash oceanic gaming radio. Follow us there. You'll get notifications and, yeah, join us on those fortnightly Monday nights, 7 PM Australian Western standard time. Otherwise. Greeeeeeezly (17:12) Yeah, what a fucking legend. Cappo (17:35) We are on literally pretty much every single podcasting platform that I know of. I don't think there's many others that we aren't on, but you can find us on everything just by searching up Oceanic Gaming Radio or go to ogr .show and you'll find all of the links there. Pretty freaking cool. Other than that, just want to say a big thank you to our wonderful Patreon Patronatias. They are... It's the wonderful legends that keep dropping a few, few Buccarinos in our back pocket keeps the, keeps the lights on. We really appreciate it. It's super helpful. I am the following legends. I'm a Sukai, Moosey, Caging, Runt, Lee, J -Libs, Brendan, Strobs and Slatos. Appreciate you. Appreciate your big time. All right. Well, let's freaking dive into this one. Sorry, I couldn't find the stinger. There it is. all right. So, Hot news. This is actually really hot news because it wasn't even on the run sheet before the weekend. So Grizz, this will be a new news story to you. I did mention it on our way in. But basically sad news. We've just been receiving reports today that Pedestrian, the parent company of Kotaku, is looking to close down Kotaku Australia. Only a few months after the app turned 10 years old. Greeeeeeezly (18:40) really? yes. Yes, you did. Yep. Cappo (18:59) So as in conjunction with this, it looks like they're also going to be cutting vice Gizmodo refinery 29. I don't, I've never heard of that one, Kotaku and life hacker. So those will be no longer published in Australia. It seems like they'll continue with their global brands and maybe other regional outlets, but. Greeeeeeezly (19:00) Hmm. Wow. Cappo (19:26) So basically the there's a parent company that licenses pedestrian brands, including Kotaku here in Australia. And that's the nine news group owned by nine years. Yeah. So what's happened, it looks like today is it's just this, you know, push towards, you know, trying to cut back on costs at the moment. And unfortunately, Greeeeeeezly (19:40) owned by nine, right? Is that right? Okay. Cappo (19:54) these outlets have been affected. Looks like they've just had their CEO has just kind of come out to announce these changes and said that they'll also be leaving as a result of these changes. I don't know whether that's kind of like a show of solidarity or they were cut, but I mean, either either I'm sure that that person's probably going to be perfectly fine. But it's unfortunately all the people that are left jobless. A lot of Australian games journalists who have written some amazing content. I mean, I've always read Kotaku Australia, especially appreciate their more nuanced articles that kind of deviates from the more kind of, you know, mainstream bullshit that you can get from any other outlet. And I think there's a lot of really talented writers at Kotaku Australia that were pumping out some, some, some excellent kind of articles and news. And it's a real shame to see this happen. But yeah, Chris, what are your kind of thoughts? Greeeeeeezly (20:20) Yeah. mate, look, I have definitely used multiple of these sites to inform my study for various episodes that we've put together. So it is a shame, mate. It looks like about 40 jobs affected in the cuts. So that's also sad given the cost of living and everything else is not easy and Aussie right now. So yeah, kind of sucks. Tech continues to suffer, it seems, Kat. Cappo (21:06) No, anywhere really, but yeah, it's, it's pretty rough. Yeah, absolutely. I think, I think another, another, kind of avenue of this and it's an unfortunate one, but, you know, with the rise of AI, I guess realistically, you know, not that it's the, you know, you can supersede, journalism at all with AI, but I think a lot of people just assumed that, the whole idea of copywriting and, and, and crafting articles can be kind of superseded and, and handed off and money saved, I guess. But I think it's going to be one of these things and it's an interesting kind of phenomenon, I guess, that's kind of happening at the moment. And it's this idea, I believe they call it the cozy web. And I read an article, I read a, I read an article about it, funnily enough, where it's, there's this kind of idea of like, the, I think they called it, I think it's quite the dark web, but it's something like that. And it's, it's essentially just the top level surface of the internet right now is just all this AI generated fucking garbage. It's full of just all these articles that are just regurgitated. They don't actually have any actual kind of human, you know, point to a lot of the articles that kind of just marketing regurgitation, just crap. But then you kind of go underneath the surface and your people are looking for real human, you know, produce basically underneath all this garbage that's kind of just surface level and they call it kind of the cozy web. And Reddit's often used to kind of garner some more intellectual, I guess, conversation and sharing of similar articles. I don't know if you do this, Chris, but I'm one of those people that will Google something and then put plus Reddit on the end of it just to try and find something. Greeeeeeezly (22:59) All the time, mate, all the time. If there's any subject that I'm looking up, it's usually on my preferred platform is to look on Reddit. Not only for the story, but you can get people's opinions and I guess the voting system, the kind of works on, you know, you get pretty relevant commentary on whatever it is you're looking up. So 100 % that, yeah, Reddit's the way to go. Cappo (23:21) Yeah. Yeah. And I think unfortunately, like we're going to see more things like this where it's happened. It's already happened to a lot of other news outlets. I know that there was a vice IP. They did a podcast called, I believe it was called Checkpoint. And they were casually as a, I think last year, there's been a few other media news outlets that have been either engulfed by other larger outlets like IGN or or just being kind of let go completely. so it's not anything new, but it does suck nonetheless. And especially, I guess, you know, being an Australian and it being one of our major news outlets for gaming news, it just really sucks. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (24:01) Yeah. Yeah, it does suck cap. Yeah. And the whole AI talk is very relevant to capo and we're going to get there in a little bit, but I do feel like as times progress, it's just one of those things. Technology just seems to, often replace people's jobs, which is just continually scary cap. One of my jobs has been taken through a technology advancement. I'm sure there's many people out there that have had the same thing. So. Cappo (24:10) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's parts of my job that, will, will, and already have inevitably been consumed by AI. but yeah. absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Greeeeeeezly (24:33) Yeah. really? Is that right? Yeah, okay. Yep. And you've just embraced that cap? Have you just embraced that change and... Cappo (24:48) I mean, it's led to efficiencies for me. So it means I can spend my time on other stuff, but if your entire job was superseded by AI, I mean, that's not going to be particularly great, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy, isn't it? Absolutely crazy. But look, as a part of this, I just kind of wanted to reiterate something that David Smith, who was the, Greeeeeeezly (24:57) Yeah, which is what happened to me. Well, it wasn't AI, it was just technology advancement, I guess. Yeah, robots, basically robots, cat. Yeah, yeah, big time. Cappo (25:14) the managing editor of Kotaku. He noted that you should go and read and listen to as much Australian content and media as you possibly can to support other outlets that are still doing it tough. Some ones to consider are the following gameshub .com, also press .au, which I watch and listen quite a lot of, Checkpoint Gaming, also Player 2 Australia. So that's player2 .net .au. well played. there's another one here called VOOX .net and, this one called Stevia. so yeah, go and go and check all those, those outlets out and go and give them your support because you never know when you might lose them and, it can happen and it, it may very well happen if you don't support them. So yeah, there you go. anyways, moving along, funnily enough, our next story is on generative AI. Greeeeeeezly (26:02) Yeah. Last one, last one. Cappo (26:14) in video games careers. And the reason I brought this up is because Nintendo has announced that it is going to be taking a hard line on the use of generative AI in their own first party video games. So basically in a recent QA with investors, Nintendo's president Shintaro Furukawa was asked about using AI video games and his response was the following. Greeeeeeezly (26:14) Mm -hmm. Yeah. Cappo (26:41) In the game industry, AI like tech has long been used to control enemy movements. So game development and AI technology have been closely related. Generative AI, which has been a hot topic in recent years, can be more creative, but we also recognize that it has issues with intellectual property rights. We have decades of know -how in creating optimal gaming experiences for our customers while we remain flexible. in responding to technological developments, bullshit, and sometimes they're pretty fucking slow on that front. We hope to continue to deliver value that is unique to us and cannot be achieved through technology alone. Now, I think this is great. Firstly, Greeeeeeezly (27:10) Mm. They're very slow. They've gotta be the slowest, I'll tell you, Kat. The slowest dev. Yeah. This, yeah, this doesn't surprise me in the least, Cap, coming from Nintendo. And I also almost... Cappo (27:31) No, neither. And Nintendo is always on this weird line between like wants to adopt, but then also refuses to adopt. And I think they're like, their general like networking services is a pure wonderful example of that. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (27:44) Yeah, no joke dude. They're only just starting to create online games now. They've literally just been not doing that for a... Cappo (27:50) I know. Yeah. I mean, even thinking like the whole idea of online multiplayer for them has been like such a slow thing. But I mean, even thinking about, you know, we've spoken about a plenty of times grids, but their entire kind of like Nintendo plat online platform, like the switch online platform and stuff, you know, that's been a very slow process for them. Greeeeeeezly (28:01) Mm. Cappo (28:12) And hopefully they can solve some of those issues with the Switch 2. But I mean, in recent years between console generations, a lot of it has been you buy the games again on the next platform because it's completely separate. And I mean, that's worked really well financially for them, but they've always been a little bit behind the eight ball. So, but I do really appreciate their stance on generative AI, especially in video games, because I don't think generative AI Greeeeeeezly (28:26) Mm. Cappo (28:42) works best in the game content side of things. I think it works better in supporting the development and speed of development, not in the generation of the content for the games. Greeeeeeezly (28:55) See, I could challenge that by saying, I reckon Pokemon RCS could have done with a little bit of generative AI and some of those environments just to flesh them out a little bit without costing development time to do so. Cappo (29:07) Yeah, and maybe that's kind of where the the line needs to be drawn is, is where can this be done? Because I mean, that's another thing is like, what Nintendo is kind of getting at here is that these models need to be trained on content, unless you're going to feed it your own content, that is only going to be able to iterate on what you've done, not what other people have done to do better. Greeeeeeezly (29:27) Yeah. So, I've got a couple of points to make here, Cap. I feel like Nintendo is pretty much different to any other developer, especially when it comes to their IPs, right? I feel like a lot of their IPs, the majority of their IPs are returning IPs, Mario, et cetera, Donkey Kong, whatever else, Pokemon, all those. And I feel like they control those IPs so closely that they just... you always hear about lawsuits then, you know, taking people to court, other bits and pieces around using those IPs inappropriately. They even commented on use of Power World and other bits and pieces. Nothing was done there. But I do kind of feel like, you know, they are always behind the eight ball a little bit when it comes to technology because they can still sell the games, not having to use, you know, other bits and pieces other devs need to. So they're kind of almost like in their own little in a little world here, Captain, and they can probably get away with making decisions like this, not to use generative AI. Although, like I kind of mentioned, I do think there's probably little bits and pieces they could use to, I don't know, maybe flesh out some other bits and pieces development, but yeah. Cappo (30:42) Yeah. And maybe they already are, but they kind of didn't directly. I think that kind of, cause one thing that is kind of obvious with a lot of this stuff is, especially when it comes to investor calls is, you know, a lot of investors like to see people responding to trends and stuff in industries. And obviously one of the biggest technology trend, I mean, realistically of all time has been AI and the idea of integrating AI into workflows to you know, reduce overhead and increase, you know, realistically investor, returns, right? So, I think that's kind of why this was initially called, but I mean, realistically, Nintendo is obviously very aware that they're putting their best foot forward in terms of development involves continuing to do what they've always done well. And that's crafting very fine handcrafted experiences. But I think it's definitely, they didn't really talk about whether they're using it in their kind of development workflow. It seems they're kind of being fairly specific with they're not utilizing this to generate like story hooks. They're not using this to generate dialogue and all that kind of shit and maybe even art assets and stuff like that. But I mean, they very, very well may be utilizing it in their basic kind of day -to -day programming stuff because I mean, I know I am already like, you know, and it makes life easy. Greeeeeeezly (31:44) Mmm. dialogue generation and yeah, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I think it's worth touching on, Cap, the scope of, at the moment, what generative AI can do. Why don't you run me through the kind of stuff that it can actually deliver that we're seeing it used for at the moment. Cappo (32:19) Well, I mean, there's a, there's a shitload of stuff, right? Especially when it comes to things like games programming, for example, like, you know, with, you know, mixed success, depending on, you know, the inputs you give it, you can ask it to help you kind of perform certain or write certain things for you. And you can kind of draw that in to your, your code base and test it and, and, and kind of go from there. you know, as the AI gets better and better, it will kind of produce better and better. Greeeeeeezly (32:22) Hmm. Mm. Cappo (32:49) kind of results. But I guess in terms of games programming at the moment, it can help you kind of design singular entities and functions and stuff, which you can pull into your into your, your code base. Obviously, we just touched on before, but it can help you design assets for all kinds of stuff, whether it be, you know, you know, maybe maybe you want just a little bit of, I don't know, perhaps you want a little bit of inspiration. Greeeeeeezly (33:07) Yeah. Cappo (33:19) for your original kind of early art kind of design stuff for early games, the kind of planning and stuff. Maybe you want to be able to help with that. Maybe you want it to help you write a template for putting together a game development documentation or something like that. There's so many places where I guess Gen .ai can slot into your day -to -day workplace. And I mean, this is a lot of stuff that people already know about. But I mean, when it comes to games program, there's plenty of applications, right? Greeeeeeezly (33:44) Yeah, this is There's some real interesting ones that I think would be fucking cool that aren't there. I don't think they're obviously there yet. We haven't seen a game with them, but the whole idea of dynamic storytelling and automated quest generation and, and voice modification tied in into that. So you might have a interaction with someone that is completely different based on your set of inputs talking to that person and using a voice synthesis and some generative AI them. Cappo (34:00) Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (34:17) actually talking back to you. You know, like the, I guess the whole idea behind that in an RPG to me is very, I think that, that, that obviously we're not there. It's a long way away, but that. Cappo (34:19) Yeah. I think that could be really cool. The only issue we've got at the moment is like even Google and stuff, you know, when you get AI, like when you get search results and stuff returned from, whether it be Gemini or something else like that, there's plenty of like warnings about, Hey, like the information this returns could just literally be garbage and you need to do your own research effectively. And what they call a lot of this stuff is hallucinations, right? So the AI is just kind of Greeeeeeezly (34:40) Mm. Yep. Yep. It's true. Cappo (34:56) just has found something through its large language model or whatever, and it believes whatever it's regurgitating to be true, but it might be honestly just, you know, nothing to do with it even in some cases. And so the issue we have at the moment is because we can't, because of the way you have to train these things and how un -reproducible a lot of the outputs are, it's very easy for you to get hallucinations in Greeeeeeezly (35:05) incorrect yeah Cappo (35:24) your in a thing like, like RPG, dialogue systems and stuff where maybe you're talking to a, an NPC and then they just talk absolute bullshit for like, it just makes no sense kind of thing. You know what I mean? So, and I guess as a gamer, if you're playing, say you're playing Eldenry and imagine like, you know, Gideon Ofnay just starts talking about the stock market or something and you'd be like, what the fuck's going on here? It'd be hilarious, but it's going to completely fuck your Greeeeeeezly (35:37) Mm. Mm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cappo (35:52) immersion, right? So I think there's parts of this where we're not just we're just we're just not quite there yet. You know what I mean? But ultimately, it'd be really rad to see that integrated the stuff and how a story could maybe change again, like you said, in reaction to your your actions and stuff, I guess a little bit more dynamically and less branched, I guess, you know what I mean? But yeah, it will be interesting to see what happens, I suppose. Greeeeeeezly (36:00) Hmm Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (36:20) Yeah, it's, it's, it's, there's some incredible stuff that could kind of be done in the future. Right. Greeeeeeezly (36:28) I think it's the future of, I think eventually Cap, there'll be AI used. I mean, I know that we're talking, there's a few different things we're talking about here. We're talking about the actual develop, physical development of the game. And then there's also talk about using AI to test things as well. And then the use of AI physically in your video game. I guess there's different, different facets there. But yeah, my take is Cap, I think, you know, I would almost bet by livelihood that we will see AI. Cappo (36:48) Yeah Greeeeeeezly (36:57) used in video games like that in our lifetime, obviously, or the next few years, I reckon. Whether it's implemented very well or not, but yeah. And it's interesting. I do kind of feel like Nintendo is its own, you know, they've always kind of done what they do. They're quite separate to Sony and Xbox in that matter. Developing games, they've got those IPs that work and they know what works. Yeah, if they're not going to use it, then... Cappo (37:03) absolutely. I'd be surprised if we didn't. Hmm. Yeah, absolutely. for sure. I think what Greeeeeeezly (37:27) And we'll cover it later, Cap, but they're not suffering financially either, mate. The decisions they're making are good decisions. Cappo (37:32) No, no, exactly right. And I mean, you do look at other AAA developers and you kind of look at the trends that they've been following in the past few years. And then also which are, which are the AAA developers that have been hurting. And it's tends to be the ones that are kind of trying to utilize stuff like this to maybe cut corners. But the thing is, again, it comes to this whole idea of like gamers, I think, especially when it comes to console level gaming and not kind of mobile gaming and stuff, but console level gaming to produce a good product, it needs to be immersive and it needs to feel crafted. And, and I mean, at the moment, like it's pretty obvious when something's AI generated. And I think a lot of people are going to see those scenes quite quickly and interface as organically as they would a non AI generated product. You know what I mean? And I mean, it's quite interesting because at the some of the more recent games conventions, Greeeeeeezly (38:19) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (38:27) In previous years, we've seen a lot of stuff like, you know, NFTs taking spotlight and people getting really excited about, you know, NFT integration within video games. And, you know, gamers have reacted insanely poorly to those being introduced. Greeeeeeezly (38:43) yeah, so that was a big topic. Where did that go? Well, I guess the whole crypto market crashed, didn't it? And it just went to shit. Cappo (38:47) Well, I think it just, and none of the games that kind of were, you know, implementing NFTs really did very well, nor were they very good games at all. They were kind of just like cash grabs. But I think the interesting thing here, Grizz, is even with the idea of AI and probably more so generative AI, I think we've seen that major companies, I mean, obviously a lot of these companies are working towards using gen AI in games content generation. that would be my only definite prediction. And I'd be very surprised if they weren't. But we're not seeing an awful lot of information on what they're building. Because normally you would think that there'd be a lot of companies coming out and saying, hey, we're really excited about this new thing we're working on. But they're being very careful about what they say. Greeeeeeezly (39:22) Yeah. No. Yeah. Well, I think people like you say, Cap, are actually scared to say that and they probably legally don't need to. I think there obviously is a big negative stigma about AI. We've seen voice actors speak up about it and many artists and other bits and pieces. Yeah, definitely an interesting one. And I think our most ever successful TikTok, Cap, was us discussing the use of AI to develop Pal World. Cappo (39:41) Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And people, people got really shitty about it and boy, was it funny. Greeeeeeezly (40:04) and he So could you imagine if a dev came out and said that they used AI to generate some assets or even to help develop their game? You know, the first thing I spring to mind is you could be hiring someone. It's a cost cutting thing. You know, you've taken someone's job to, to, you know, use AI to develop that part of your game. And yeah, that's a, that's a real thing, but also cap technology, mate, technology, fuck, you know, so much, like I mentioned at the start, so many people have lost their livelihoods through technology. And I think it's. Cappo (40:15) Yeah. Yeah. you absolutely. I mean, the whole idea of industrialization basically rendered a significant portion of the population not able to work. So, you know, it's kind of, it's an unfortunate reaction of humanity. Well, consequence, sorry, for humanity is naturally as technology improves our lives, it also fucks our lives in some other ways. Greeeeeeezly (40:42) Mm. Mm. Cappo (41:00) But I mean, one just off the top of my head whilst I'm thinking about it, Chris, is even the whole idea of doing quality checks on video games is quite a laborious practice and you hire a big quality assurance team for a lot of AAA developers. Greeeeeeezly (41:08) Yep. You get paid to play video games though, Capo. Surely that... Cappo (41:16) get paid to play video games. But I mean, that could be potentially an avenue where AI becomes quite widely used. And I'd imagine that's probably gonna be one of the biggest ones is just using AI tools to test your video games naturally without you having to kind of pay for a human being to do it on time. So there's gonna be plenty of avenues. Greeeeeeezly (41:35) God, yeah. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna give this example here, Cap. So the job that I lost, mate, was as a science diver, particularly for coral monitoring. They started using robots, ROVs, to go and take photos of corals instead. Safer, cheaper, you don't need a five -man team to do it, all these things. Anyway, there's one thing that an ROV couldn't do, which was go down and fan the coral and feel it. And there was something that a human could do. that would give you extra little bits of information that were important in that work. And I'm sure that the same is said for game testers, QAQC game testers. You know, I feel like... Cappo (42:14) Yeah. Yeah. Well, underlying it all, it's, it's, you're utilizing like coding tools to interface with the game to, to do the testing a lot of the time. And, and, and that stuff is where AI is really easily integrated with, especially from a development point standpoint. So yeah, I think you're right. I mean, even looking at some of the stuff I used to do when I was a geologist, like, and I always thought at the time I was like, man, one day this is going to be fully automated and like, Greeeeeeezly (42:33) Okay. Is it now or not? Cappo (42:42) I'd be surprised. I wouldn't know off the top of my head because I don't, I'm not, I don't operate as a geo anymore, but there was one particular job that I had for a while. And it was basically these 360 degree photos of boreholes. Yeah. And, I used to sit there and, and click little sine waves to do measurements and stuff on like, you know, structures in the borehole and, and all that kind of shit. And the member just thinking, God, there's going to be an easy way to do this. Like, I can't believe someone's paying me to come. Greeeeeeezly (42:45) Yeah. I remember. you Cappo (43:12) put little clicks on this fucking photo. But right now I'd be very surprised if that wasn't being like AI past. I mean, you're still going to have to have depending on especially when it comes to financial implications, right? So information from that borehole would result in, you know, realistically financial data. So, you know, you might be using utilizing the data that gets Greeeeeeezly (43:14) Yeah. Cappo (43:39) pulled out of those boreholes for a, a, a, a golden announcement or something, you know, so the information that comes out of there needs to be vetoed by a human being at the end of the day. So there's probably still going to be, depending on the criticality of the data that's being pulled out of it, there's still going to have to be some level of human, you know, check over the top of it. Cause I mean, again, we talk about hallucinations and stuff. I can put everything the fuck at once in there. Greeeeeeezly (43:57) Yeah. Yep. Dude, we've got fucking trucks that aren't driven by people here in West Australia now. Most of the mine sites are all automated trucks that just drive a route. Yeah, massive big trucks full of iron ore. Cappo (44:08) I know. Yeah, not like small ones, like the size of like five houses trucks, like. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (44:20) Yeah, humans do not drive those anymore. It's all just computers. Cappo (44:25) Yeah, it's crazy. Isn't it? Yeah. It kind of feel like we're in an episode of June or something. You know what I mean? but yeah, crazy. Anyways, Chris. but yeah, there you go. Like, I mean, I, yeah, Jenna, I, Greeeeeeezly (44:27) mental. Yeah, big talk. Take away cap, AI, Generative AI, do you think good for gaming, bad for gaming? Give it to me, right here. Cappo (44:42) I think right now it is bad for gaming, but I think over time as we learn where it can have impact and still ensure the quality of the product that's coming out, it will become good for gaming. And I think it's really important for developers like Nintendo to have a hard stance to show where and where it can and can't be used effectively. Greeeeeeezly (45:05) I like that. That's good, Cap. I would just like to be able to walk into a bar, talk to the Tavern Keep, and him respond to me different to the way he responds to you and have a conversation through AI with the Tavern owner. Cappo (45:19) Yeah. Yeah, I think that's actually before we kind of wind this one up. One thing I was thinking about earlier is, is maybe like a good place for AI would be kind of procedural difficulty generation. But then I had a kind of second thought about that. And I was like, the only issue there is, is like, you kind of are slowly deviating away from like shared experience where I find a lot of gaming for me is like talking to others, how they kind of how they went with the game, especially like even just think about Elden Ring recently, and like the, you know, DMs you and I've been having and talking about Elden Ring. And there's a common point of reference there, that the difficulty is the same for the both of us. Whereas if AI had that as a sliding scale, like we probably wouldn't have, well, we definitely wouldn't have the same experience, full stop. And I wonder how much of that kind of Greeeeeeezly (46:11) Yeah. Cappo (46:13) also bleeds into story and everything else to the point where suddenly we're not really playing the same games at all. And like that common point of reference is just kind of lost. Greeeeeeezly (46:23) Dude, I think having an option to turn that on and off would be pretty cool. A generative AI difficulty that picks up if you're really struggling and it balances the game to make it enjoyable for you. I think that would be pretty cool. Cappo (46:33) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't remember. There was a game I played on PlayStation recently where it had like a, I don't know if it was AI specifically or, you know, such a, such a like generalized term, the whole idea of AI, but I guess it kind of had like a variable difficulty scale. and I can't, God, I can't even fricking remember what game it was. yeah, I can't see it inside of me anyway. but yeah, I remember thinking, I wonder if this is AI, but I mean, I don't know. Greeeeeeezly (46:47) Hmm. So Pixel9Tales in chat is saying that Resident Evil remakes have the adaptive difficulty. There you go. I know in Aladdin, in SNES Aladdin back in the day, there's this one section where Genie puts these clouds for you to jump on over this platforming bit. And if you die there too many times, he lays out a real easy one for you. Yeah. Cappo (47:12) Yeah, okay. Yeah. And I suppose it's kind of. Yeah. really? Yeah, I do remember that actually as a kid. Yeah. Yeah, that's a classic. But look, kind of shoehorning off this gris. And we I mean, we've kind of been touching on Nintendo and it kind of seems like a lot of Japanese game developers are not really being affected by the recent layoffs that have been, you know, targeting a lot of AAA developers. You know, more recently, we had obviously some of the Bethesda adjacent studios, the ones such as Tango game, something or other, Tango games, and also can't think of the other one, arcane. We're both closed down. But we're not seeing an awful lot of layoffs coming out of Japan. And I mean, more recently we had Miyazaki from, from software noting that they had no layoffs planned. Greeeeeeezly (48:25) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (48:25) can konami have been kind of slowly growing and capcom even raised raised their their wages like this year, you know to kind of help with inflation whatnot. So I guess Greeeeeeezly (48:32) Yeah. Yep. And I believe Nintendo is the same cap. They've got the highest retention, like employee retention. Cappo (48:41) Yeah, I actually think one thing that I heard about Nintendo is it kind of becomes a place for a lot of genius developers as well. So they tend to just keep their staff around for ages and yeah. Greeeeeeezly (48:56) 98 .8 % retention rate of Nintendo employees, with an average tenure in the industry at 14 .3 years. Cappo (49:01) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's a Yeah. Yeah. It's a significant amount of retention, you know, pretty wild. Now, one thing that has been noted in this article specifically, I'm reading is, is that there's a lot of Japanese laws that restrict non -permanent employment. So you, and it kind of promotes you to utilize non -consultancy as well, and kind of hire people in -house to get shit done, which I think is a brilliant way to preserve roles, obviously. Greeeeeeezly (49:13) Mm. Mm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (49:37) But Greeeeeeezly (49:37) Yeah. And they also say, Cap, that it's very hard to fire someone once you've got them on the books there too, right? Yeah, like we're talking about companies being taken to court over unlawfully letting someone go and other bits and pieces. So very, very, quite, quite different to what we see here in Australia and in US and other, other places, Cap, but yeah. Cappo (49:43) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think also realistically Grizz kind of reading the writing of the war here. Cause I mean, this article doesn't really, I mean, it kind of touches on a lot of broad strokes with, I guess, culturally what they, what they're like, in Japan in terms of how they, they employ and, how they retain and, and, and I guess, you know, how they operate. But I think one of the big things to really talk about here Grizz is I think realistically Greeeeeeezly (50:11) It does, yep. Mm. Cappo (50:27) a lot of Japanese companies are just very conservative with their games projects and they don't do the bullshit that seems to happen in a lot of Western countries because maybe they are a little bit more frivolous with money and a bit more frivolous with contracting and hiring and all the rest of it. They kind of bloat very quickly, whereas it seems like in Japan, A, they have all those kind of constraints around their market, their employment market and keeping people in the books and doing the right thing. Greeeeeeezly (50:50) Mmm. Cappo (50:54) But then it kind of seems like, you know, even thinking about from software, you know, they know what works for their games, you know, and they don't deviate too far from that. And they iterate and when they do iterate, they tend to iterate in a direction that only improves the overall product where, and, you know, you kind of compare that with Nintendo, they kind of do the same. They know which IPs work really well and they know how to expand them. And exactly. Greeeeeeezly (51:15) Mm -hmm. They're not scared to say we're not using AI. They're sticking to their guns and in that respect, yeah Cappo (51:20) Yeah. And then you kind of compared a lot of other Western companies and markets and, you know, you kind of look at what they kind of do in broad strokes. And they just kind of seem to be clamoring over each other to be the first to use shit like AI, the bit of first to like, keep pumping out the regurgitated cookie cutter, like open world games. And, and, and then suddenly wonder, why is no one buying a games anymore? Because I mean, there's this old garbage. Greeeeeeezly (51:40) the You could do a massive deep dive into this article loan cap. There's a few things that I guess resonate with me. The fact that you've got these laws that make it hard to fire people. You can't offer casual contracts in bits and pieces means it's really important that you get the right person for the right role. Sounds like... employee retention is high, well, at least it is for Nintendo. People aren't moving around jobs a lot. So you've got the right people for the right job. Also the cost of living over there is quite low cap and the wages are low, but the wages are low and the cost of living is low and that kind of evens out. So game development as a whole is probably quite low when you compare that to say US or somewhere else overhead costs here. So there's, I think there's like a lot of different facets here that Cappo (52:28) As in overhead costs, you mean? Greeeeeeezly (52:35) that drive this, but you're right, Cap. It's also down to, if you look at these names that we're looking at in this article, you look at From Software Band on Amco, Konami, Nintendo, Capcom, you know, they have not put a foot wrong, Cap. They're bringing out a lot of good video games, obviously. So. Cappo (52:48) No. Yeah, I suppose the only company that I think I've seen maybe suffer a little bit recently is probably Square Enix, in honesty. And I think unfortunately, the big difference there is that Square Enix is quite reliant on a Western audience as well. I mean, obviously Nintendo is reliant on that and so is From Software, but there's a lot of other Japanese companies that just don't really need the Western kind of Western angle. Greeeeeeezly (53:03) yeah. Cappo (53:21) And it seems like over time, the front of the sorry, the Final Fantasy games have struggled a little bit. And then also Square Enix's. Greeeeeeezly (53:30) Do you think they're still making money on those Final Fantasy games Cap or do you reckon they'd be losing? They are, okay. Cappo (53:33) yeah, they are. And they've, they've promoted that. But I mean, the thing is where Enix has had quite lofty expectations for a lot of its IPs and they consistently say that they haven't met expectation a lot of the time. And I don't, it's hard to know obviously what that expectation is because they don't, announce or release information or what their internal kind of operations are. But you know, obviously they're expecting, you know, X plus whatever, for their profit. They're already getting X. So, Greeeeeeezly (53:46) Rot. Cappo (54:02) Regardless, it seems like Square Enix is probably one of the only ones I can think of that are suffering recently. I think they've had layoffs. but yeah, it's, it is generally quite interesting. and yeah. Greeeeeeezly (54:08) Okay. The other thing I wanted to talk about, Cap, really quickly is if you can't fire someone, you can't hire casuals, I feel like that if your company's not doing well, you can't fire and rehire, or it's difficult to do that, will just drive you into surely just closure of that company, right? Cappo (54:31) Yeah. And maybe that's some of the issues that are happening in Square Enix. Maybe. I don't know for sure. I don't know what the culture or, or I guess what the internal vibe there is, but maybe there's kind of a lot of older developers or people they kind of can't get rid of that are making it difficult to iterate, making it difficult to take the IPs in the, in a different direction, perhaps. Interestingly, around about this time, there was another, there was a another, what do you call it? Greeeeeeezly (54:37) Hmm. Mm -hmm. True. Yeah. Cappo (55:00) article that's been floating out. I was going to say this one for the rapid fire, but we'll just kind of talk about it now whilst we're on the topic. But Nintendo has recently kind of just said that, you know, they're focusing on kind of handing over the company to, you know, its younger developers now, because, I mean, you kind of look at some of the guys that made even thinking about, you know, Miyamoto and whatnot, you see them get up on stage and talk about some of the new games come out, they can hold, you know, they're like, you know, pushing. like Siffity, some of those guys. Greeeeeeezly (55:30) That's pretty good cap that they've got the foresight to do that. Someone has the foresight to do that. You know, like there's got to be a passing of the reins at some point. Cappo (55:34) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Miyamoto was quoted saying, you know, after being kind of queried about, you know, the whole idea of handing the company over and some of their creators aging and probably not being able to hold the reins forever. Obviously, Miyamoto kind of said, I consider Nintendo's generational hand to be progressing smoothly. We have developers that are both young and brilliant. So it kind of comes back to that idea of where clearly Nintendo is harboring some really, really good talent. And we're seeing that in the games that have been coming out in recent years. And I mean, even thinking about Grizzlyke, it's not just the idea for, I mean, for me, yeah, like talent in video games development is not only producing great story content, so not even making great gameplay. But when you think about a game like even Tears of the Kingdom, and how they got that game to run well on the Switch, that is technical brilliance. Greeeeeeezly (56:26) Hmm. Yeah. yeah. That is development time right there, mate. No shit. Cappo (56:38) That is it. And so to have a game that is operating on like significant different like, you know, in the sky, you're on the fucking floor, you're down under in the caves and like in and out now. And in you know, like, that is technical brilliance. So yeah, it's, it's, it's been, I don't know, it's, it's, it's, it's good to see, you know, so, yeah, I don't know, just to kind of wrap this one up, Chris. Japan seems to be doing all right. And I think I'm going to continue to support Japanese games as I always have because... Greeeeeeezly (57:09) Yep. They're doing, they're doing good, mate. Got their heads switched on. Cappo (57:11) They're doing well. And you should support the games that are doing a, you should support the developers that are doing a good job. Not the fuckwits that are, you know, doing, you know, really, really average battle pass and free to play kind of monetize. Yes. Exactly right. So exactly. so on that note, Bethesda has a game called starfield and yes. Greeeeeeezly (57:22) Like the next story, hey Cap? The fucking next story, mate. Good segue! Hmm. Now, before you jump into this, one of our viewers loves Staffield. Is that Slatos? Who is that? Slatos, okay. he's moved on. All right, so we can slander it. We can shit talk it, okay. We did, yeah. Cappo (57:42) Slatos does, but he said he moved on the other day. So I think he won't mind if we shit talk it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we did anyway, but when he was flying anyway, so whatever. But look, basically in between, so we've got the next DLC coming out called Shattered Space. That's not hit markets yet, but in the meantime, Bethesda put out some content called the Vulture Quest, which is available in their modding community thing. Slaydos is in the chat, good day, bye. Basically, I think the whole idea is that you can download this Vulture Quest thing from the Creator Club, which is kind of like the modding area, and it's been published by Bethesda, from what I understand. Now, the thing is, this is the first paid DLC because the quest costs $7, and it's only available from the Creator's Hub, right? So... Greeeeeeezly (58:36) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (58:37) I think they're trying to get people to get in there and see that there's other things going on in the creations hub. And, you know, you can download these free mods and whatever else. Now the issue is, you know, so it's being marketed as a piece of downloadable story content. It's got voice acting and the whole lot. now it just turns out that it's only about 20 minutes worth of gameplay. They're charging you $7 for it. and it seems like it's just kind of utter. Shit, the actual story quest is like really, really boring and a bit lifeless. and it's just kind of, yeah. Greeeeeeezly (59:13) I cannot get my head around the decision cap to tie a small story element to a paid cost in the marketplace. And it seems, so just so on Steam right now, if you go and look at Starfield recent reviews, it's got mostly negative reviews in there. And I'm just going to read this one because I think this does a pretty good job at explaining why people are angry about this or at least unhappy about this. Cappo (59:25) Yes, neither. Greeeeeeezly (59:43) So I picked this up at launch. A lot of us did. I got way into it before I realised the pond was very, very wide and only a quarter of an inch deep. Now the DLC announcement and the creation club content and pricing question mark rarely pay permission. You've effectively killed any reason for me to remotely want to reinstall or invest time in this product beyond the 245 hours I've sunk into it. If anything, I feel like I should bill you and charging you for the time to beta test this product. Cappo (59:51) Mm -hmm. Greeeeeeezly (1:00:13) I feel like paying for a, cause it's not a DLC cap. Would you say, well, it is, is it, is it a DLC? But would you classify this as a DLC? What is. Cappo (1:00:24) Technically, I mean, by pure classification of the fact you download it, it is a piece of downloadable content. But I think the issue here comes from when you download a piece of quested story content from the developer of the game you're playing, I think you hold it to a higher standard versus other shit that you would download from modders. Now, the thing is, they've put this in there. Greeeeeeezly (1:00:27) True. Yes. Yeah, okay. Cappo (1:00:51) modder ecosystem, because I think partially the intention here was to show hey, modders create quests and you can go and have people pay for it and charge for it. Sure, that's fine. But the issue is you've created a piece of content that is pretty much literal garbage, and then you're charging people $7 from it. So you've kind of just really Greeeeeeezly (1:01:02) Okay. Cappo (1:01:17) just diminished the overall value of the game entirely and kind of, I guess, the whole use of that particular marketplace. So I can kind of see the intention there to maybe try and get people in there looking at modded content, maybe buying some. Greeeeeeezly (1:01:27) Yeah, that makes more sense. That makes more sense. I think they might have just gone about it along the way. And it does look like they have kind of backtracked on their Twitter about this, even though nothing's been done. Cap, I did write down here somewhere around something. It looks like they discussed by potentially reversing this, but it hasn't happened yet around the cost for that particular item. Cappo (1:01:53) Yeah, I'm sure that they'll wind it back. but look, Chris, I just, I can't help, but continue to feel that like the Bethesda that we knew and love is just so fucking gone. It is, it is not in the, it's not in the room anymore. It is, it is that company is pretty much gone. I kind of hope to see maybe, the next doom iteration kind of, you know, have some headway, but I mean, the more recent kind of like. Starfield Elder Scrolls -esque stuff has just been very, very unfortunate. Fallout 76 was just an absolution. I mean, Fallout 4 was just, I mean, again, look, this is my own personal opinion, but I think it was incredibly boring, lacked a lot of kind of just the Fallout vibe and... Greeeeeeezly (1:02:25) Fallout 76. Right. Mm -hmm. Cappo (1:02:44) Ultimately, I think they spent more time on some of the systems that needed less time spent on it, like base building and stuff in the Fallout game. I'm just kind of like, I don't need that. You know, just, just give me a good Fallout RPG experience without all the other like, you know, survival crafting bullshit. or if you're going to do it, just do it properly and do it well. And it just, it just didn't feel good. You know? So I think, I think the Bethesda's in this struggle phase of putting out games. in its own kind of standard Bethesda template and structure, but they're putting it out into an ecosystem of video games that are just upwards and way better in the same genre. Things have changed, but Bethesda is not changing with them. They're not using them as impetus for, you know, change their own development practices and producing good content. They just kind of stick into what they've always done and it's getting aged and it feels tired. Greeeeeeezly (1:03:23) Things have changed. Things have changed, yeah. We're going to talk about a little bit later, Cap, but I did find the statement here. Apparently Todd Howard came out and said that the studio is aware of the criticism and is now going to reevaluate the pricing and what's included in the game in the future. So it sounds like they have taken some of the criticism on board, but look, I guess my takeaway on this, Cap, is I can't help but think about a couple of games, No Man's Sky and what's that futuristic one that rose from the cyberpunk and Cappo (1:04:08) Cyberpunk. Greeeeeeezly (1:04:10) They offered free content and just to get players back into playing their video games. And I know that this was to try to pull people into the mod store. I didn't understand that before speaking to you tonight about this and maybe, you know, encouraging modders to, to mod the game. And then the fact is that maybe they can sell those is one point, but I feel like the way they've gone about this is not the way to do it. You just give, give them, give them the content, give them the content. Cappo (1:04:32) Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:04:39) because it's going to bring people that people will see that you've provided free content and they'll come play a game like No Man's Sky continually iterates on that game providing you free content. Yeah. Cappo (1:04:49) Yeah. And you probably stoke less fires. You know, you're probably going to better player relationships. I suppose the only thing that I really don't like is I think a lot of Bethesda's recent kind of approach to it's, you know, modded games has been, I mean, realistically, it tends to be that the modders fix the game in the end. You know, they provide some quality of life changes that actually make the game feel good or, you know, new AI, you know? Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:05:15) We've joked about this many times about the Bethesda games. Cat, rely on the modding community to, I mean, look at bloody Elder Scrolls, Cat. The only reason why that game is still alive now and a lot of people still play it is because the modding community is insane for it. You can basically reskin that whole game to make it look current. Cappo (1:05:24) Yes. Yeah, big time. Yeah. Yep. Absolutely. Negri's kind of alongside all this is, you know, Todd Howard sort of come out and noted that they don't really want to rush the next Bethesda game, which, sorry, Fallout game, which is, you know, that was in response to just kind of having a bit of a chat with a YouTuber. He said, for other full like games in the future, obviously I can't talk about those right now, but I would say, sort of rushing through them. But I would say short of rushing through that. We need to get stuff out that is different than the work they're doing in 76. So, you know, obviously there's conversations about what the next full like game is obviously, you know, this was all kind of in response to, the fallout 70, sorry, the full like TV series that has done. really well. And if you haven't watched that, go and check it out because it's a very, very well put together piece of media. But I guess, you know, they've kind of got, I guess, because you kind of think about what Bethesda's main IPs are, right? They've got, they've got Elder Scrolls. So they've got that. They've got, you know, apocalyptic, you know, post forties, apocalyptic Skyrim scrolls, which is full out. And now they've got Skyrim in space scrolls, right? So they've got kind of got these three major pillars, but how do they effectively differentiate them without just regurgitating the same template on top of it every time? I think that's kind of what maybe Todd's alluding to. Yeah. And they just, they're not, they're just not doing because they've, they've got all these things in perpetual development. Greeeeeeezly (1:07:00) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Well, I think that's their issue, right? Isn't it? That's their... Cappo (1:07:21) I'm wondering if maybe they're finding it really difficult to really iterate properly on the whole idea of what a Bethesda RPG is these days, because they're too busy trying to turn these new IPs that are kind of just a distillation of their Elder Scrolls RPGs every single time into new directions without being able to kind of really take a single, their template in the right direction, if that makes sense. And it makes me wonder like, what the Man, we've said it before. Greeeeeeezly (1:07:51) They need to buy out some other companies to get some new fresh eyes on this stuff. Cap, that's my take, mate. Yeah. Cappo (1:07:57) Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, they tried it with arcaded stuff and it didn't seem to go too well, but, I don't know. Greeeeeeezly (1:08:02) That's true. Hey, question to you. Will we see the original Fallout games remade, remastered? The fresh liquor paint. Cappo (1:08:11) Look, I'd be really surprised if they didn't redo Fallout 3. I don't know how that would look, but I mean, I just want Vegas redone. Like Fallout New Vegas, I think represents for me, the pinnacle of all of the like, over the shoulder kind of first person slash whatever Fallout games. Greeeeeeezly (1:08:16) Mm. Cappo (1:08:38) You know, cause I mean, I kind of hold them separate to for that one and two and stuff. So they are, they're made by obsidian and obsidian were the original. Greeeeeeezly (1:08:40) Mm -hmm. They made by different dev, those very first ones, or there was some other. That's right, yeah. That was the top -down weird exploration, kind of almost like Diablo -looking kind of games. Yep, janky. Cappo (1:08:54) Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think I'd love to see that, but, you know, I'd be very surprised if there wasn't some piece of major fallout content that came out around about the same time as the next TV series, whether that is a major piece of DLC content or whether that is a small kind of, I don't know, even mobile game or something like that. I'd be very surprised. Greeeeeeezly (1:09:11) Yeah. I'm sure they'll line it with that because it's been quite reasonably successful. I actually watched it. Well, didn't really get into it. I watched like a few episodes. No, didn't really get into it. Yeah, it was all right. It's okay. Cappo (1:09:28) No? Not your thing? I think I can understand, you know, I mean, because I mean, have you played, you've played the full eight games though, right? Greeeeeeezly (1:09:39) not all of them. No, I played the very originals and I played Fallout 4, I think. I haven't played New Vegas Cap, so I can tell you that. Haven't played that. Yeah. Cappo (1:09:47) Yeah. I mean, if you've only played Fallout 4, I think I can understand. I think, I think the thing I like about the TV series is how it, it does a good job of kind of just regurgitating what a Fallout game is in more recent iterations. So I don't know. It's, I can understand the criticism. It's, you know, it's fine. Greeeeeeezly (1:09:54) Mm. Well, Cap, let's talk about Elder Scrolls 6 really quickly. So 2018, mate, was the trailer. So we're, what, six years, six years along here, and we have, we are none the wiser. And the trailer is literally environments, that's it. And it could have been made on the last Elder Scrolls engine. Cappo (1:10:10) Yeah, well, I mean... Yes. Yep. It's not even like it's a teaser. It's not even like it's basically nothing. It's just a flyover of what is probably just a piece of generated art that is not even in the actual game engine. Who knows? Greeeeeeezly (1:10:45) Will we see it in our lifetime, Cap? Will we see it in our lifetime, mate? Cappo (1:10:48) God, I mean, at this rate, man, who knows? I look, I would be very surprised if in the next two years we don't get an announcement. because I mean, that would be eight years since the teaser trailer, which would be insane in my mind. and I mean, the last major we had starfield and then before that we had fallout four. I actually have. Greeeeeeezly (1:10:59) Mm. Cappo (1:11:17) I don't know if I spoke about this theory on here or not, but I actually have this theory that Starfield was actually before it became Starfield was a pre early Elder Scrolls six game that they eventually just completely took a 360 on and then gave it a space theme and you know, new liquor paint essentially. And I reckon a lot of that came from, they realized that the Elder Scrolls 6 as it was in that moment in time, could never go up against some of the other RPGs that were coming out like The Witcher 3. Obviously we've more recently had Baldur's Gate and stuff like that. We had Cyberpunk. I think that's what happened. And in the end, what they did was they reskinned it as a space themed RPG. And then they basically, cause then they could go, Greeeeeeezly (1:12:00) Mm. Yeah. Interesting. Cappo (1:12:13) It's not related to Starfield, it's a brand new IP. And so I think that's why we've never seen anything since is because they basically had to start development all over again. Greeeeeeezly (1:12:23) had to rebuild it up again. Look, look, fuck, I don't mind. Because if they're going to develop a game that long ago on that engine and then release it now, I don't know. So maybe it needed some fresh stuff. Interesting. Interesting, mate. Yep. Cappo (1:12:33) Who knows? Either way, it's been six years since the teaser trailer and before that they had announced that development was beginning for the Elder Scrolls 6. So this game's been in development for like, I don't know, like probably eight years, potentially longer. And we know that there's over time, we've spoken in Greece about how the development time of AAA games has expanded and bloated over between each iteration of next each game and over time naturally. But this is just getting to take the piss phase. Greeeeeeezly (1:13:08) I can hear you just commenting the chat. When the new Elder Scrolls game becomes more of a myth and mystery than the Elder Scrolls themselves. Cappo (1:13:18) Yeah, I like that. I had a good time to segue. All right, Grizz. So, Baldur's Gate, what a game. I mean, I know you've put it on the back burner, but I mean, let's just give a little clap to, you know, a developer that is actually producing video game content and putting it out at regular intervals. Larian Studios, well done, Legends. Now, before they finish up with Baldur's Gate 3, they're basically doing a final handover. So they're not going to be doing any major, major patches beyond this next one. But this next big one is to basically introduce modding support, so that people can continue to just fucking. Keep, keep it rolling. Greeeeeeezly (1:13:46) Mm -hmm. That's good. Yeah. And they did this for Divinity as well. Cap, have you opened Divinity recently? When was the last time? So on the main page in Divinity, there is on the main page is a mod, a mod button you can press. And that is so integrated into that game. You don't need any third party software, anything like that. It's all integrated in that game and so accessible. I remember the last time I played, I actually enabled a couple of mods in there. Things like, I can't remember what I did, but. Cappo (1:14:00) No. man. They just... Greeeeeeezly (1:14:02) Larian. inventory management and a bunch of stuff that people had made that just sounded really cool. Some new spells and other bits and pieces. But yeah, dude, they do their things right, Cap. You know, I think the way that they'll integrate it into their game, allowing mod support, is just going to give that, the game a little bit extra life. You know, people are amazing with what they can do. Now they'll probably create extra little weapons and all sorts of stuff. So I think this is pretty cool. Do we know when this is coming, Cap? Do we know when this... when we get this patch for the mods. Cappo (1:14:55) I'm not too sure actually, I mean, is it in here? I think it's, it's soon TM. when are they? No, they haven't quite mentioned it, but, yeah, I said, I think it was before the end of the year, was the plan. So, but yeah, it'll be cool. I think, I think it's going to open up a lot of, you know, potential for some really cool shit. I mean, you know, people will. Greeeeeeezly (1:15:02) Hmm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (1:15:23) Theoretically be able to utilize this to create their own like campaigns and stuff, which is going to be really cool Greeeeeeezly (1:15:29) Even things like item randomizers and stuff like that just make the game fresh again for people wanting to replay through it. So yeah, I think it's cool. It's cool. Cappo (1:15:31) Yeah. Yep. Yeah. It's bloody exciting. And I mean, all this kind of tied with one of the last figures I could find Gris was 15 million units sold. It's probably close at 20 now, I'd imagine. And, you know, another thing Gris is, is the average playtime for this game is actually fucking mental. It's over a hundred hours average playtime. Like that's Greeeeeeezly (1:15:53) Yeah. What is the average playtime out of curiosity, Cap? Yeah, well, let me have a look at what I've got on it. Cappo (1:16:05) I know it's a huge game, but a lot of games, like a lot of games, people just pick up and don't finish and you know, they have 10 hours. So like your average playtime isn't that big, but I mean, here's a, here's another reference, right? Starfield's average playtime is 40 hours. Elden Ring's average playtime is 47 hours and Skyrim's average is 75. So over a hundred hours is nuts. Greeeeeeezly (1:16:16) Mm -hmm. I tell you what, the replayability in Belladose Gate 3 is insane. I've done one full playthrough and we're playing through it again. And even, there's just so many different outcomes of what are possible in that game. So Cap, I've got 175 hours in Belladose Gate 3, mates. There you go. Cappo (1:16:43) Yeah, wonder what mine was. Mine would have been like in the 150 -ish, I reckon. How do I... Can I just search that up? Folders, gate three... 143 hours. Single playthrough. That's the old do literally everything playthrough. One of my personal faves. Greeeeeeezly (1:16:50) Mm. Get it on your Steam, mate. Have a look. There you go, far out. Yeah, so it does not surprise me. And that would include people that picked it up, got to the first action, decided that they couldn't be fucked as well. Cappo (1:17:09) But this is what I mean, Grizz. Like that's a significant amount of time for even people who just dropped the game. You know, obviously it's, it's weighing heavily towards that. So yeah, mental. Great, great. Now Grizz, speaking of that, there has been $19 billion spent on Steam for games people have never played. Greeeeeeezly (1:17:20) Mm. Mm. Yeah, I'll be one of those dude. I reckon I've played like 1 20th of my steam library if that Cappo (1:17:33) Mate, I - dude, I reckon I'm lucky in that. And I tried to find a way we could find this stat out and I couldn't find anything. So if anyone on here knows of a tool where you can figure out what games you have never touched and as a percentage of your overall Steam library would love to find that out. If you could tweet it to us or even jump on Discord, go to ogr .show. You can drop some information in any of those, but couldn't find it. But I reckon it is a shit load. Greeeeeeezly (1:17:41) Yeah, how do we figure that out? you Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (1:18:04) I wonder even if, have we got the, how much have I spent on Steam? Greeeeeeezly (1:18:05) Mm -hmm. God, there is a way to see how much you've spent in Steam. I don't wanna know, because I've spent a lot of money in Dota. I remember we did this once and people were like in the thousands and thousands of dollars. It's not. Cappo (1:18:18) Yeah. yeah. I'd be very surprised if mine wasn't in that area, but yeah, I can't find it easily. But anyways, maybe we'll report that next time we come in here. honestly though, $19 billion on games that people have never played that's actually out of control. And like, if you think about that, when it comes to like, like valve is just swimming in money from people who have just been like, here, this is money for you for no reason. That's basically what has happened. I'm sure these are the other markets and stuff where that's happened, but still. Greeeeeeezly (1:18:53) Yeah, well what the steam sales are the big ones I'm a Steve sales on hell. I'm gonna buy heaps of games and never play it Yeah Cappo (1:19:00) Yeah, I mean, I've been way better on that. And I think a lot of that has been because I've already bought all the games. But it's still kind of wild. So I just wanted to share that stat with you, Chris. But one thing that's happened recently, Chris, is steam has just announced a new built in game recording feature. So you can create and share gameplay footage directly in steam, which is mental. Now, Greeeeeeezly (1:19:06) You've already got all the good ones, man. Mm -hmm. Wow. Cappo (1:19:29) I'll just kind of give you a bit of an idea of, I guess, the features that are involved with this. Exactly, all inbuilt into Steam. Well, it's just there. It's just a part of what you already had. So, yeah, basically, with background recording mode, your gameplay is continuously saved to your preferred drive, never exceeding your specified duration or storage limits. And on -demand recording mode is also available with manual on and off. Greeeeeeezly (1:19:33) Is it kind of like Shadowplay kind of thing, Cap? You have an overlay on, do you? Or, I guess you got Steam overlay on anyway. Cappo (1:19:56) You can then use Steam's timeline and event markers to find key moments. Replay, you can quickly jump back in time, useful for seeing things that went wrong or when your hero died or were calling, accessible in the Steam overlay. You can also create clips of your favorite moments that you can share and edit them locally. And you can share them directly in the Steam chat or download it and beyond. Greeeeeeezly (1:20:01) Dang. Cappo (1:20:22) and it's pretty wild. Yeah. They've got all these like timeline event markers. So another cool thing about this is there's a entire API that is available to game developers now. So for example, they showed how, your entire Dota game can be recorded quite easily with this new feature. And you can see timeline and event markers show up on your recorded game. you can see where you died. So you can click that event, get back and look at it in the past, add player markers and stuff. Greeeeeeezly (1:20:40) Dang. Cappo (1:20:51) so it's pretty damn cool grids because like theoretically, you know, other like competitive games could hook into this API and then use it to do the same kind of thing. Like Mark, you know, your cod game could like show you where you died in your, you know, on your timeline and stuff like that. So this is some pretty cool and interesting ways that, you can, you can do this. Another really cool one gris is it's, it works on Steam deck. Greeeeeeezly (1:21:07) Hmm. Yeah, right. That's cool. Yeah, very interesting. No. See, that was my first question, Cap, because I know I, first thing I do when I get my PC is disable all the overlays, the Steam one, I don't, but I know that like the recording overlays and, you know, being able to capture moments in the past does use resources. So I'm surprised that it is working on the Steam deck effectively. Cappo (1:21:20) It works on Steam Deck. Yeah. I don't know how it works under the hood, but I'd imagine, I mean, steams always generally pretty good. especially if it's able to kind of utilize resources that it's kind of already using for its overlays and stuff. If it's able to just divert a little bit of juice towards recording game stuff, like it's kind of fucking wild, right? So, really, really cool update. There's apparently available immediately. So, you should be able to go on and check that out. Greeeeeeezly (1:21:46) Mmm. That's cool, yeah. I like that. Cappo (1:22:11) but yeah, I just, I mean, gris for me, I think the, the API availability is probably the big one here. Cause you know, there's things in here where you can mark events that happen in your game to shot in certain ways on the recording timeline. Like, you know, maybe there's a boss battle, you've unlocked a new item or something like that. you know, you can. sync it with certain States in your game to kind of like mark when it might be a good idea to start recording and stuff. So you can do like auto recording stuff, even just like marking when stopping recording, like when you go into lobbies and stuff like that, like it's just, it's just really cool. So, I think if I was a game developer, I'd be quite excited, big time, quite excited. So very fricking radical, but yeah, there you go. Chris, got a question for you. Greeeeeeezly (1:22:50) Dang, I like it man. Yeah, yep. Cappo (1:23:05) I know how you do gaming's go my friend. Greeeeeeezly (1:23:08) Well, Capo, I've put everything aside for the old ring DLC. Now before I jump into this, obviously be wary of spoilers, right, for potential viewers or how we managing this today, Capo. Cappo (1:23:25) I'm just thinking, look, I think as long as we don't talk about the final boss, we should be fine. Greeeeeeezly (1:23:32) Okay. I've been playing a bit of Dota, a little bit of Dota with Rorks in the chat sometimes, been keeping my skills up there. I am going to try to climb to something decent this year. I am slowly getting out of the trenches, mate, slowly. Now, look, Elden Ring DLC, Capo, I think it does a lot right. I've kind of written down the things that I have enjoyed about my playthrough. So, I don't know, you happy for me just to kind of work through? Cappo (1:23:41) You Shit yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yep. Greeeeeeezly (1:24:00) through this list, yeah. So I feel, Cap, that there's moments of this DLC that have trumped any other time from any other Souls game that I've had. Everything, and it's a combination, I think, of the way that they've done it. It's the world building, it's the atmosphere, it's the voice acting, it's the music. And there's a couple of moments in particular, and one of them is without spoiling too much. One of the Dragon fights that you have, one of the late game ones, I just absolutely loved that whole area and that whole build up. And I love bringing that NPC in and the way that he voice acted in that fight and that whole atmosphere around that was just amazing. I think there are a couple of environments that you walk into and it's like, dang, this is cool. It made me realize Cap that I think Elden Ring was actually quite... Cappo (1:24:46) Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:24:56) It was way less saturated color wise, right? Cappo (1:24:59) Yes. Yep. Greeeeeeezly (1:25:01) You know, you look at, Limgrave and that area and then even Kaelin and everything else, it was all quite, like monotone color. You've got areas in this game that are just truly beautiful, like, you know, bright blues and very vibrant. And I really enjoyed that. I enjoyed that aesthetic playing through. So I was going to clear my throat real quick. Cappo (1:25:13) Absolutely vibrant. Yeah, mate, go for God. I think just to kind of follow up on that is like, you're totally right. They definitely have taken some of the environments in kind of just an incredibly, it's almost like fluorescent direction in some areas. You know what I mean? Greeeeeeezly (1:25:26) Mm. Yeah, yeah, big time. Yep, yep. And you can touch more on it, but I feel like there's obviously lore tied behind all those bits and pieces. You're in this kind of, you know, this shadow realm. It's quite different to what you see in the main game. Cap, I found the actual world design as a whole far less flat, more intertwined to the point of where I was getting confused where I was going, but I think that created, it actually reminded me of the way that they created some of the Dark Souls 3. Cappo (1:25:38) But, Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:26:04) level designs where you'd be going through this one particular area and you'll do a massive exploration. Then all of a sudden you'd unlock a door and you're like, my God, I'm back in this, in this, area again. And I've unlocked a shortcut. It was kind of like that, but on a world scale where you'd be exploring one certain place. And then you come out and you're like, my God, I've just come out of this river mouth. And I'm like, yeah, again, I don't know where I am. And they just did a, yeah, I think that obviously someone spent a lot of time developing that, that map and the Cappo (1:26:13) Yeah. Yes. Here I am. Yeah. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:26:33) the way it kind of works. And I just thought that was very well put together. And because it's built like that cat, there was lots of little secret areas and stuff hidden in amongst, in amongst the intertwinedness of the world that, you know, very, yeah, exploration was, was fantastic. I really enjoyed looking at every little nook and cranny and exploring, the armors and the armor and the weapons cap touching on that. Cappo (1:26:53) Yeah. Yeah, no, big time. Greeeeeeezly (1:27:02) really quickly. There was something that Dark Souls 2 did. Did you play through Dark Souls 2? You did, Majula. Armour sets had affixes on them, some of them. They would increase your intelligence. They would actually do things. I thought that was the only Souls game that did that. Elden Ring base game didn't really do that apart from the helmets. But that's one thing that I've loved about the DLC is a lot of the armour sets have these little buffs on them. An example is that I found that Cappo (1:27:07) I did, yep. yes. Yep. Greeeeeeezly (1:27:31) this set that gives you more damage to all of your dancing movesets with certain weapons. And I was using a weapon with a dancing moveset, so I banged that on. And there's quite a few throughout the game. I think that was a really nice addition. It kind of made you think a little bit more about your build and can you put on some stuff that makes your build a little bit better. So I already enjoyed that. Kat, the NPC quests, I found them a little bit less convoluted than standard Souls games. Cappo (1:27:57) I'd agree. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:28:00) I feel like they all revolved around one overarching story, lore -wise. So I found it easier to follow them. I think I missed a few, but I wasn't left going, fuck, I don't understand. Someone's gotta talk to this guy to skip all his dialogue and then hope I bump into him a bit later. I found it a bit easier to follow someone who's not hugely into lore. So I think that was a positive. Difficulty cap. I think difficulty so far was It's interesting. I almost have a negative to say about it I feel like the game is fucking hard until you reach a point with the scooter fragments and then you literally piss through the remainder of the game, which is kind of what I found I had pretty much most of the bosses just sitting there unfought until I'd done all the exploration then I went back and I nearly killed them in the space of a couple of hours I just went through and not Cappo (1:28:44) Yeah. Yeah, same. Yeah, I literally did the exact same thing. Greeeeeeezly (1:28:58) Hmm. And I don't know whether that is a, I don't know whether it's necessarily a bad thing because I don't think there's a way for them to have implemented DLC and manage the power spike when you've got existing characters you're taking in. So I don't know whether, I don't know, what are your thoughts on this Cap? Do you think they could have done that better to prevent that from happening or? Cappo (1:29:20) look, it's pretty hard to kind of scale it and design it properly. I think the only, only option you might've had there would be if you segmented the world a little bit more and gated off certain areas to buy bosses, and then you could only restrict certain numbers of schedule tree. yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:29:38) Yeah. Mm -hmm. make it more linear kind of thing. And so they've got to defeat this guy to, yeah. I'm glad that they didn't do that by the way, because I like the. Cappo (1:29:49) Yeah. And yeah, no, I am too. Cause I think like personally, I didn't have it in me to. Belt my head against some of the bosses for hours. and so I was kind of glad that I could be like, okay, I'm going to go and do something else and come back later. And then when I came back later, it was like four attempts max a lot of the time. it's that felt pretty good. but I mean, some of the bosses were like trivial. Like, I don't know the one that. Greeeeeeezly (1:30:10) Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Cappo (1:30:18) before you find St. Trina. And it's like that that thing on the horse analysis like like fucking foreshadowed. Greeeeeeezly (1:30:26) So I definitely think certain bosses were more difficult for other people. Yeah. So like, for example, I had a really hard time dude with that fucking flower boss with the... Yeah. He was an asshole man. And I think it was because... Did you? Yeah. Cappo (1:30:31) by far. Yep. yeah, because I had no issue with that flower boss. Yeah. Yeah, I actually, I one shot it and because then I saw again, it was the same thing as that blackguard thing. One of the first optional bosses. And I saw people complaining about and I thought I didn't have any issue with that. But again, it comes down to like what you're using. By that stage, I had so many scatter tree fragments that I was staggering it really easily. And it just basically couldn't survive. Greeeeeeezly (1:30:51) Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. Cappo (1:31:07) what I was doing to it. And I took that as it's been my main weapon in the game since then has been that boss as, as my as my thing. But, but yeah, I think I think they've done a good job overall. It's a real difficult one gris like to find the right balance there and people are always going to complain. I think I think for me, I definitely think it trivialized some things once I got to a certain point of player power with the fragments. Greeeeeeezly (1:31:14) Okay, this is not because I'm fly, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (1:31:37) But I will say, they mean fucking nothing for this final boss. Greeeeeeezly (1:31:41) It's kind of cool though, Cap, because requiring the fragments encourages you to explore and play the game. So, and enjoy it. And yeah. Cappo (1:31:48) 100%. Yep. And enjoy it all and look. Yeah. Cause I I've maxed my fragments out now. So I've got the maximum blessing. and then, yeah, I've, I've walked into the final boss maybe 10 or 15 times now. And it is just, it is fucking ridiculous. No, and I'm going to say anything about it, but fuck me. Yep. Greeeeeeezly (1:32:07) So I haven't got in there yet. I've unlocked the area to go in. I've unlocked the area to go in there. I think I'm sitting at about 15 or 16 scooter. I'm pretty sure. Yeah, yeah, level up. So, okay. Cappo (1:32:20) Yeah. Yeah. So it goes up to 20 and yeah, it's it's actually crazy. I think I'm going to have to change my build because I just don't think my character is fast enough. It's actually insane. There's like, it's probably the most ridiculous fight I've had to do probably since orphan of cause. Yeah. With just shit that you can't dodge. I'm just like, what the fuck? Greeeeeeezly (1:32:33) Yeah, right. Huh? Cappo (1:32:49) you know, it's just like, it's inside. But I'm interested to get your take on it next next gris because yeah, but look, Greeeeeeezly (1:32:56) Just want to quickly touch on the ASI's comment in the chat there, just reading through that, Kat. And just to summarize that, yeah, the community has always been like, with the difficulty, a get good mentality for games like this. The DLC kind of seems to have changed attitude a little bit, saying the system is to make it easier for people to kind of get involved. The handbrake U -turn is so weird to see to me. Cappo (1:33:09) Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:33:24) I think what it is, Mousy, I think as Souls games are becoming more mainstream and you're getting a lot more people that aren't Souls fans, yeah, more copy sold, that they want to have a not a Souls experience or they're looking for an experience that's a bit more exploration. Cappo (1:33:32) Well, copy sold. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's only natural because like, as you have more copies sold, you have more customers to keep happy. So they're not going to go through and do the usual from software bullshit with some of their DLCs where, you know, you have to do all this inane shit to get to a DLC. And I mean, go from there. But I think also, you know, whilst it kind of seems like a U -turn, like the game's not any easier. Like I think there is still really hard. And even with the fragments, like some of the bosses are Greeeeeeezly (1:34:04) It's too fucking hard. Mmm. Cappo (1:34:09) like significantly difficult, but it's one of those things where it's like, the games have always given you things to make the game easier. But if you don't interface with those things, of course the game is going to be hard. I think there's also a lot of like, you know, games content now these days where people are telling you, you know, here's the build to do like a billion bleed damage and people just go and do that. And then it's suddenly really easy. And it was like, man, this game is so fucking easy. But like, I don't know. It's just, I think there's so many things that counteract it all, you know? Greeeeeeezly (1:34:21) Yeah. I actually just reflecting as a whole here, Cap, FromSoft have definitely done a few things to make the game more accessible to more people. I think maybe simplifying the lore a little bit is one of those. And then I think the whole Scooter Tree upgrade system is one of those, but they've also stuck to their roots a lot, Cap. You know, the entry to the DLC as always is towards the end of the main game. Cappo (1:35:01) Yeah. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:35:02) gated behind possibly one of the hardest bosses in the game. And, you know, they still kept some of those, those key things that makes those DLCs special. That's true. Yeah, that's true, dude. Cappo (1:35:10) Yeah, but I mean, they actually advertised how to do it this time, like most most of the time they don't tell you how to get in there. And then like it takes people figuring out, I've got to like get this item that drops off this thing to then go this area. Then I use that and give that to this person who then like gives me another item that I then go and use on this door. Like is random shit. Greeeeeeezly (1:35:29) Just ask Pixel9Tales about the entry to Bloodborne. I remember sitting in there watching his stream for about five hours as he literally explores the whole of the game to try to find the entry to the DLC. Love that. Cappo (1:35:34) Yeah. right there. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like you're right. This is way more accessible because like it's, it's a fairly simple entry point, right? pixels, chime it out and chat. but yeah, I think ultimately that's probably where we see this, you know, change, right? and I mean, realistically, like Elden Ring's such a different beast in terms of like size and what the potential variance in player level by the end of the game, because of all the potential optional content that you might or might not interface with as a player. Right. And obviously if people are going to go and pay $60 for a piece of DLC content, that's a significant investment. So the player, I guess, realistically deserves some degree of, I guess, you know, Greeeeeeezly (1:36:12) Mmm. Cappo (1:36:39) craftsmanship there to ensure that people can interface with it. And a lot of that comes, I think, from the Skedoo Tree fragments, but yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:36:46) Hey, how much time have you put into the DLC, Cap? How many hours you got, you reckon? Cappo (1:36:50) Hmm. Yeah. I think before the DLC, I had about a hundred hours or something worth, and right now I'm sitting on a hundred. maybe not. no. I had about 80 hours and I'm sitting on a play time of 111 .6 hours. So just over 30 odd hours, maybe 30, 35 ish max. Yeah. And that's me doing literally every single thing I possibly can. Greeeeeeezly (1:37:10) Mm -hmm. I think mine would be pretty similar, I reckon. Yeah. How much does DLC? 50 bucks? 60 bucks? Cappo (1:37:22) Yeah, $50, $60, I think from memory. So, pretty, pretty good, you know, like, you know, there's a lot of AAA games that are that length. Greeeeeeezly (1:37:27) Yeah. I will say actually, that's one thing I haven't touched on, Cap. I feel like the build variety is insane. Like there's a lot of shit. Cappo (1:37:35) yeah. And the new weapons are big time and the new like the new spells and weapons and things that you can get. There's so much like, I dunno, inter -twining of potential there, you know, it's actually kind of, it's kind of insane. but yeah, I guess, I guess, do you want me to? Greeeeeeezly (1:37:48) Yeah. I'm gonna ask you the question cap because I'm done. How is your gaming going mate? Tell me all about it. I haven't got a stinger to press for you Cappo (1:37:58) Yeah, and my gaming has looked very, very similar to your gaming. I basically have just bled every single spare moment into Elden Ring, but I've kind of hit a point now where I've walked into the final boss and it is insanely difficult and I haven't felt like I really want to get back in there too often because it has just been a absolute floor wiping. And I do, honest to God, feel like I need to change my... my fucking build, which is kind of annoying. But is what it is, you know, it's a souls games is how it goes sometimes. And, you know, I haven't been able to get good quite just yet. But it's, I mean, the I mean, look, Shadow the Earth tree is gonna like it's, it's it's funny that this game is a DLC, because it's one of the greatest pieces of game content that's ever been put out, like it's just wild. Greeeeeeezly (1:38:37) Yeah. How have you found the lore and the ties to the main game and other bits and pieces? Cappo (1:38:57) Yeah, look, I think the law has been really good. I kind of didn't expect, I mean, I kind of did, but I kind of didn't expect the law to go in the way that it did more so just with, I guess, the way you follow everything without sort of being too literal with spoilers and stuff. But I guess what I kind of mean there is how you're kind of being breadcrumbed and why you're being breadcrumbed. is I find it to be quite interesting. I just I really love what they do. And I kind of spoke about it last time, but just this whole the the symbology of the game and likening Mikala to like a Jesus Christ, I think is, is is really well kind of, you know, it's got poetic in a lot of ways, I guess, you know, you see a lot of those parallels drawn, and you've got kind of these people that are following in his footsteps, kind of like pilgrims trying to, you know, do the same kind of thing. And I just really kind of appreciate that and how it coalesces into this quite sinister narrative as it seems a lot of the Elden Ring based game also has done in a lot of ways and it just kind of keeps revolving back into this kind of grimdark fantasy thing where As always in Dark Souls games, no one really wins. Everything kind of sucks. No one's really a good guy. Despite maybe them naming themselves to be the good guy. Everyone's got their own ulterior motives and those motives generally don't result in anyone winning, particularly outright. Maybe some people, but others not. And I think it's kind of funny because like, I was kind of thinking about the other day is like Elden Ring. The base game is like, as always, a kind of post apocalypse style narrative in a more medieval setting. Exactly. And what's happening in Shadow of the Earth tree is you've gone from a post apocalyptic area into a post post apocalyptic area. Because that that area, the Shadow of the Earth tree area was a was where a massive shit fight happened before the base game. Greeeeeeezly (1:41:01) Yeah, shit's already hit the fan. Yeah. Cappo (1:41:24) And, you know, there was a moment in time where things were fine after that moment, but now things have shit the bed again. So now we're kind of going back through two layers of post -apocalypticism. And it's kind of, I don't know. I just, it's, they do a great job of tying up some of the loose ends and kind of giving you some meaning to some of the less understood things in the base game. And it's really great. Greeeeeeezly (1:41:50) Did you have some big ding moments, Kat, where your brain just combusted from knowledge? Cappo (1:41:56) yeah, absolutely. And I think a lot of it is just like, not like explaining why things happened. Cause there's a lot of things where I feel like that's still kind of, my interpretation is not quite there. And I, you know, probably going to have to watch a few YouTube videos, I think as per usual, but I think you read a few law, texts in the game of item texts, and then you realize like who certain characters are related to and why. Greeeeeeezly (1:42:06) Hmm. Cappo (1:42:26) And some of the bosses in there, you know, like for example, I think it's the, you know, the, the, the night, the magic night that has the flame sword and the, the blue sword, you know, she, Greeeeeeezly (1:42:42) yeah, fuck, that was one of my favorite fights in the whole game, dude. That was so cool. Love that. Cappo (1:42:45) Yeah. Well, so for what I understand that is Renala's sister, which is kind of cool because she was like sent back into the shadow to kind of go and fucking sort out Mesmer or something like that, which, and it's just all these little layers that you kind of start going, holy shit, that's mental. And like, that's how that person's kind of, you know, where they're from. Because then you kind of see these, these similar motifs and you're like, well, why is that here? And like, doesn't really make sense. Like, was that always there? Like, Greeeeeeezly (1:42:58) Right. Alright, okay. Cappo (1:43:15) And yeah, even like, you know, the whole idea of those hand things in the base game, and there's like, no reason for them to be there. There's no Lord, no one knew what the fuck they were there for. And then there's an entire questline as to what they are. And it is mind boggling. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:43:22) Yeah. That was sick, dude. Yeah. And I don't know if you've watched the TikTok I sent you, dude, but the armour that you get from that particular fight, if you alter it, it turns into the finger armour he was wearing and it buffs the finger incantations. It actually changes the power of that armour. Check it out. Looks very cool. Cappo (1:43:46) Christ. sick. Really? Okay, I couldn't watch it because I don't like, tik tok used to let you watch tik toks were having tik tok but now you have to have tik tok to watch the tik toks and I just don't have tik tok. I do Instagram reels not tik tok. So just another thing I need to do. But yeah, look, I guess I haven't quite finished it yet. I've got final boss to go and I'm probably at this stage probably gonna just do some multiplayer just to knock it on the head and just be done with it. But Greeeeeeezly (1:44:01) Okay, so right, yeah, fuck. There you go. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Cappo (1:44:20) I've loved it entirely and I think it's been such a good progression of Elden Ring and it's such a great little magnum opus kind of moment. Just the cherry on top of the Elden Ring cake. And I'm really excited to see what they do next. Greeeeeeezly (1:44:30) Mm -hmm. And that's it for Elden Ring, isn't it, Cap? There's no more Elden Ring now content. Cappo (1:44:41) There's no more Elden Ring, but there has been rumblings. So I can't remember what Georgia Martin said. So let me just quickly. So he recently teased that there might be a TV show or something coming soon. So someone basically in a blog post, he said, and about the rumors, you may have heard about a feature film or television series based on Elden Ring dot dot dot. I have nothing to say. Not a word. Nope. Not a thing. I know nothing. Greeeeeeezly (1:45:02) hell yeah dude. Fuck. Could you imagine the bosses and shit like the, they'd be fucking insane. Cappo (1:45:20) I don't even know how it would look because I think the thing for me is like in Elden Ring, like the protagonist is completely silent. So how, how, how does it look? I don't even know. Yeah. Greeeeeeezly (1:45:29) Yeah, he doesn't say anything. Yeah. I like that. I just want to see patches in there being arsehole, just like fucking luring you into something in. Cappo (1:45:37) Yeah, I mean, they could do a like they could do the story of how Godwin, you know, is is like the whole shift, like the shattering. So the big battle that happens, you know, when Melania and Radahn have their massive fight, like talk about that moment in time where why that happened. And then it goes into the game, then you go and play the game. You know what I mean? Like they could do some really cool shit. Greeeeeeezly (1:46:01) Hmm. That's gonna drive people to fucking go and play Elden Ring again, dude, if they do that. If they do some kind of... That's cool, man. I like that. Cappo (1:46:09) for sure. Yeah, there could be some significantly cool TV moment stuff, but, but yeah, anyways, that's made my gaming and apart from that, I downloaded a game called, God, what was that game called Chris that I just spoke about? God. Greeeeeeezly (1:46:23) You did tell me about it. Surely after Elden Ring we're playing World of Warcraft, aren't we, cat? Cappo (1:46:28) I mean, yeah, probably let's do it. Absolutely. I've got this game called Dread Illusion, which kind of looks like a Morrowind style kind of game. And I'm probably just going to play it on my Steam deck. It looks kind of interesting. And yeah, I don't know. I'm quite excited to just play like a weird little open world kind of RPG thing. So yeah, that's what we got. All right, Grizz. You know what time it is? It's this time. Greeeeeeezly (1:46:32) Okay, let's do it. Ooh. us. Cappo (1:47:05) in the freaking game. What the one going? What does it say? Rapid fire news brought to you by. It was me all along. All right, Chris, Twitter integration no longer exists for any major consoles, including PlayStation, Xbox or Nintendo. Basically, I think recently this month, the Nintendo switch dropped its Twitch integration. Greeeeeeezly (1:47:05) That voice is yours, isn't it, Cap? That voice is yours. Is that it, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, is that you? Cappo (1:47:34) and I mean, it makes complete sense. Basically, when X now called X or Twitter was acquired by Elon Musk, a towel, they implemented a thing where to use the API for Twitter, you had to pay significant amounts of money. it was no longer a free API. and as a result, a lot of things just kind of died, including like third party. Greeeeeeezly (1:47:59) Mmm. Cappo (1:48:00) read a Twitter, Twitter, things like tweet deck was a free use kind of multi thing. You can't do it anymore because it, it, it was going to cost them like millions of dollars to use the API to, you know, handle those requests and it was free for use. So, yeah, it's, basically died and slowly these integrations have been removed from existing services for other things, including Nintendo, Xbox and PlayStation. Greeeeeeezly (1:48:05) Yeah? Is that not a thing you can do anymore? You can't do that. Very interesting. Capo, this is a bit of a story here. This is a tweet from Hideo Kojima, developer of Death Stranding amongst other projects. When I had just started my own studio and had nothing, I pitched the Death Stranding project to Norman Reedus at a sushi restaurant, asked him if he would like to do it with me. He instantly said yes, even though he didn't even have a script. The following month we conducted scanning. and performance capture for the trailer. He's also noted that he was still underweight and skinny at the time and he's put two pictures of that actually happening. So it's a pretty interesting cap, pretty cool. The origin story behind Death Stranding, mate. Cappo (1:49:11) Yeah, it's the origin story. Mr. Redis. And it makes sense. I mean, like, I'd assume Redis was probably a bit of a gamer, but then also would have appreciated a lot of Kojima stuff because he is a incredibly unique, you know, developer and individual. So, yeah, makes total sense. All right, Grizzly. Speaking of Elden Ring, Shadow of the Erd Tree has sold 5 million copies only. I think it's a about two weeks after release, not even maybe a week or so after release. This was about 11 days ago. So I'd imagine that number is much more now, firstly, but, you know, selling 5 million copies that soon after release date for a DLC nonetheless is kind of mental. Greeeeeeezly (1:49:51) Yeah. Okay. It's also assuming that, well, I wonder how many people have bought that and not got through the main game. I wonder how many people have bought that and gotten into the DLC. Hmm, interesting. Cappo (1:50:05) Well, exactly right. Well, how many people have bought both of them and never played the game? According to Steam's 19 billion dollars spent and not played. Not anymore. Actually, yes, I do. I do. Yeah, I do. I hope not. Greeeeeeezly (1:50:11) Yeah, probably. Probably a coupler. Hey Cap, have you got a Wii U? Do you? Is it broken? Well, if it is broken, apparently Nintendo have announced that they are out of parts necessary for repairs. So as of July 3rd, 2024, they will no longer be accepting repairs for the Wii U consoles and peripherals. Cappo (1:50:41) Yeah. end of an era Grizz. I mean, yeah, I guess they, I mean, you know, like anything, they're not going to kind of keep shoveling money into something that they're not selling. So make sense. All right, Grizz, a follow -up to the legendary Disco Elysium might have been ready to play within the next year. the, the devs loved it, management canceled it, and then they laid off the team recently. So for a while, it seemed like miracles were possible and with the, them redemption. So. look, there's a been a long running issue with the, the developer, company of, of disco Elysium and they're being, you know, allegations of abuse and all kinds of other shit going on and people doing all this dodgy shady shit with money and whatnot. and it seems like, you know, they had tried to plan a followup, but more recently there was a big old layoff where, 25 of its staff were cut, including writers, which Greeeeeeezly (1:51:28) Okay. Cappo (1:51:41) you know, for a small studio is a significant number of people. So, yeah, it looks like things are truly shit in the bed now. So you probably will never get a DSCO or Leicium 2 and maybe we didn't need it. Greeeeeeezly (1:51:56) There you go, interesting. CapCityProjectRed says its new Boston studio means Cyberpunk 2 will be authentically more American. The example they've used here is that apparently it had the wrong manhole covers. One senior exec pointed out, so they need to fix that straight away. I don't know what phone boxes and... Cappo (1:52:13) Yeah. I mean, you know, it's funny though, Grizz. I never considered Cyberpunk one to be like a America, you know, I mean, I know that there was very American things in there. And I think the DLC, you know, the whole Phantom Liberty thing is, is, you know, kind of, you know, there's a president and all this other shit, but I never, when I played the game the entire time, I never thought, this is like America, but not quite America. Like I kind of just thought of it being a separate kind of thing and during inspiration, but, Greeeeeeezly (1:52:37) Hm. Cappo (1:52:44) I guess it makes sense. There you go. Now, Grizz, I'm gonna skip this one, move on to the next one, because we already spoke about it. Across Europe, game sales for May are down 17 % compared with the same period last year. These figures are considered to be mostly due to the fact that Tears of the Kingdom came out last year. And to put into context, in 2023, Zelda sold more than the entire top 10 in May 2024. Greeeeeeezly (1:52:59) That's true. Cappo (1:53:13) That's fucking nuts. Greeeeeeezly (1:53:17) That is fucking nuts actually. That is, that's a lot, that's a lot, that's a lot, mate. Done well. Now Cap, there was no link to this, so I've just Googled it, but apparently in Ubisoft's recent Cull, the game Good and Evil 2 has survived the Cull. So we've got confirmation that that game is still in development, Cap, is that right? Cappo (1:53:18) That is fucking nuts. That's a lot of fucking sock sold copies. Big time. We did, I think there was a tweet basically that was saying, Hey, don't worry guys. It's still in development, but notoriously. So I never played the original beyond good and evil, but it's a cult classic. It's one of those beloved Ubisoft older IPs. but beyond all that, there's kind of, it's kind of had the Duke Nukem forever treatment where like they will always be like, it's coming. It's coming. And then it just seemed like it was just all bullshit. Eventually it came out, but, Greeeeeeezly (1:54:11) I've never seen this game dude, but it looks kind of interesting. Cappo (1:54:14) You've ever seen it? Yeah, it's kind of like an old, it's an older game, the original one. I can't remember what year it came out. Have you got the year of release for the original game? Greeeeeeezly (1:54:21) Errrr Cappo (1:54:24) 14 years ago that kind of stacks up. So what's that? 2010? Greeeeeeezly (1:54:30) wait, it's been 14 years since they started writing about Beyond Good and Evil 2, so... So it must be even longer. Yeah, okay. Cappo (1:54:36) Yeah, I was going to say that seems earlier than I expected. Yeah. I would have thought beyond good and evil one would have been like early two thousands or something. So yeah. but yeah, anyways, beloved game. Basically we hadn't heard an awful lot. And then it sounded like they released a trailer, that teased it basically in, you know, elder scroll six style, I guess. And, we've kind of heard nothing since, but then Ubisoft has been like, all right guys is coming. Greeeeeeezly (1:54:44) Right, shit. Cappo (1:55:05) so I don't know, maybe one day we'll see that game. Maybe not. Tell you what you will definitely see next time is us. Cause that is the end of the show. Grizzly gaming 86. really appreciate you guys being here tonight. Thank you to our wonderful live listeners in here tonight. It's been great having you in here. pixel mousey 12 orcs daddy. who else got the airy J slay toss moosey. Greeeeeeezly (1:55:10) Maybe. Hey, it is. Yeah. Moosey, lots of legends, yeah. Cappo (1:55:35) Zalabar, welcome mate. Obviously, WEP. Inferno, yeah, just all you legends. Thanks for jumping in, really appreciate you guys immensely. If you'd like to, yeah, absolutely. is Karzai in here? I missed him. Yeah. G'day mate. Greeeeeeezly (1:55:43) Kazi. Yeah and - There is just a just a real quick reminder before you jump into your spiel guys Please do check out the show notes for this week's episode We did announce at the start of the episode of you're coming in late or you missed the start that we do have another podcast under the OGR banner it is run by a lovely gentleman called weapon good friend of Cap and I's here our podcast is aimed at what eSports and all things eSports cap plus other bits and pieces Cappo (1:56:14) Yep. Australian esports, oceanic flavor. And yeah, a lot of it again, kind of to reiterate what we spoke about the start of the show is, is a lot of us kind of like insight into esport kind of trends and you know, player mindsets and stuff. I had listened to the episode earlier in last week and yeah, it's a ripper and just things I never even kind of considered, you know, even talking about reaction times and stuff. And yeah, I've always kind of thought about reaction times, but then they kind of tempered that with how player experience basically impacts the needs for certain levels of reaction time, you know, because, you know, or does it does it kind of improve your do you actually, you know, yeah, I won't go too hard on it, because you should go and listen to the episode. But yeah, go and check out Greeeeeeezly (1:56:44) That's cool. Yeah. shit, yeah. So there is one episode already, but these guys are gonna be running, we're Fortnightly, they're Fortnightly, so there's gonna be always something under the OGR banner that you guys are welcome to go listen to on our weeks off. Cappo (1:57:08) There's one episode. Exactly. We're working on getting a unified playlist and some kind of media areas that you guys can have all that coalesced into a single feed. And we might, I mean, nothing set in stone, but there might even be more podcasts coming soon. Okay. So pretty exciting in the oceanic kind of games media library. Greeeeeeezly (1:57:35) Mm. Cappo (1:57:41) so yeah, keep an eye out on socials. We'll announce more once we have more information for you. But, yeah, regardless, thank you again for being here. If you want to go and listen to the show after the fact, you can go to OGR .show and you'll find all of our links to all of our different podcasting platforms at YouTube's, you know, at discourse. If you want to continue the conversation on after the fact, you want to come and say good day? yeah, you can do that too. otherwise, if you want to become a Patreon, go to patreon .show slash OG, sorry, patreon .com slash OGR show. and you can be paying us money and we would bloody appreciate it let me tell you that for free because this shit ain't cheap, pal! yeah other than that that's about it really we'll see you guys in a fortnight love you guys immensely see you there Greeeeeeezly (1:58:27) Peace out.