THE AAA DOGMA! - EP 90

Cappo (00:19) G'day and welcome to Oceanic Gaming Radio. This is episode 90 on the first of the fourth, 2024. My name's Captain Perth and alongside me, Red Weird slash Adrian. What do you, mate, what do you want to go by? Adrian (00:34) At the moment I've been using the handle or name or whatever, Shameless Flirt, which has gone pretty good. Cappo (00:42) shameless flirt. Yeah, that was that was actually earlier before we went live. Yeah. Adrian entice me with an accidental well, I don't know if it was accidental. I think it might have might may have been, you know, potentially not crotch cam, which was excellent. But unfortunately, didn't say that because we're using a new recording software that we're trying this time. Adrian (00:48) Alright. Yeah, oh yeah, you know. You get a little dose. You get a little dose. Cappo (01:09) Actually, I need to fucking post we're going live on here. I need to do that on here as well because Fucking one man band here because there's no gris this week. He's out on Noylary. Excuse me. So You got me and I mean in all honesty, we've traded up We've got friggin Adrian and he's got some shit to say about some video guys that I can't wait to dive in. Oh Man, it's gonna be brilliant. Now. I want to know how your Easter was mate. What happened? Give me the rundown Adrian (01:27) I've got a lot to say. Well, had the Friday off, school finished Thursday. So I had, that was my first term teaching. So my long nightmare was over. Oh dude, so fun, man. I had such a good time. It's pretty hard work. You work pretty much constantly. And then I think that works better for me though. Insane amounts of work and then a period of rest. It's like. Cappo (01:45) How was it like overall? What like give us, you know? Yep. Yeah. Do you think that's like, you know, do you think that's like the ADHD mentality of just work in general is kind of nice just to get it done in a fucking block rather than have it drip fed over like Adrian (02:10) Yeah, yeah, I feel like I need to be under constant and immense time pressure to be productive. So if like if it's like an eight hour where there's no oversight, and you kind of like can work if you have to, it's hard for me to motivate myself. But teaching it's like you're on constantly. So it works. Yeah, it's good. Yeah, it's just it's just pretty fun, man. Cappo (02:17) Yes. Yeah. Yep, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. How about your like your subjects and shit that you're doing? What's your kind of, what's your flavor? Adrian (02:42) Oh, I just teach English. I've got two year eights, year 10, year 12 and a year nine class. And they're, you know, they're all right, they're all different. Cappo (02:51) Yep. Yeah. Is there any like, you know, like, have you got any students that are like complete savants and you're just like, man, you're going to be a fucking, you're something else. Adrian (03:07) I would say no one that is like especially smart. I've got two year eight classes and like the gap between them is quite large. One's like a higher ability class, one's a lower ability. But I wouldn't say it's like, I haven't been like learning disability, some dyslexia and stuff like that. but I don't think there's any real sort of cognitive, at least that I haven't identified. I've only seen it for about nine weeks so far. But yeah, it's really fun. It's like, it's funny as people, when I tell people that I'm a teacher, when I was studying to be a teacher, they'd be like, oh man, I could never do that. I could never work with kids. It's like, is working with adults good? No, not really. Kids are fun, man. Yeah. Cappo (03:40) Yeah. Yeah, uh, not really. No, no. I mean, working with anyone just kind of sucks, you know? Adrian (04:03) Yeah, yeah, that's it. But yeah, kids are fun, man. They're really funny. And they give you like 100% of their personality, which is interesting. Because you kind of lose that as you get older. Cappo (04:13) Yeah, do you know what is interesting? I don't know if you maybe experienced this in other places you've worked. But do you think that's just the fucking because Mia, I spoke to me about this little while ago. Because she brought it up because she's got a new person she working with and they're millennial. Not wait, what's the current one? The Gen Z? Is that Z? Yeah, Zed. Yeah, so anyways. Adrian (04:34) Yeah, Gen Z, I think. Gen Z? Gen Y or some other? Cappo (04:38) Yeah, man, I can't keep up with it. But anyways, regardless, she was saying that, and when she said I was like, yeah, that fucking makes sense. Like that, like, generation of people, they don't have a split between their, like friendship, social personality and their work mentality or personality. It's just one continuum. And they're, they're always in it. So like, they can't, you know, Adrian (05:00) Yeah. Yeah, I've heard similar reports from some of my friends that are working with Gen Z. And you've got to get it. It's like, they're always on, I suppose, because they're constantly connected to the internet. So there's no real switch that you turn off. Yeah. And the other thing is that like, this is pretty dire, but I think it's true. They don't really have any like, Cappo (05:21) Yeah, actually that's a good point. There's no separation. Adrian (05:36) When we grew up as millennials, there was that idea that, you know, you could get a good job and buy a house and all that stuff. And she sort of found out to be not as true or not true, but that kind of came to us like sort of later and so like 2007, you know, we were pretty established as adults around that time. But for them, it's just been their whole lives, you know? So you can understand why they're not that into working. because for them, it doesn't really seem to be a huge amount of point to it. At least that's why I look at it as an old man. Cappo (06:06) Yeah. Yeah. And I suppose on top of that, like, and I see this more and more these days, I suppose as well as there's this whole kind of like side hustle thing as well, like whether it be streaming or whether it be having your own clothing brand or whether it be, fuck, I don't know, like making fucking soap or some shit. I don't know. I feel like everyone kind of takes their idea of a professional career and kind of Adrian (06:24) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (06:42) I guess tries to sidestep that a little bit as much as possible, you know, which is totally fine. Don't get me wrong. But I guess that's one thing I noticed with a lot of people and young younger people these days is, is they tend to always have that like that side hustle. Like I went to a I went to like a market recently, when we went down south for holidays. And there was like, I'm kid you know, I've never seen so many people that have their own clothing brand. that are trying to make their own clothing brand work. And I'm like, guys, I hate to tell you about economics and saturation, but it's fucking not looking good. I only need so many shirts. Adrian (07:15) Yeah, Quicksilver exists. Yeah. I think, yeah, I think part of it is like that same sort of thing. It's like our parents, you know, especially our parents' parents, you'd start a job and you'd just work at that same place for your whole life. And you'd get regular raises and you'd be able to buy a house and have a family on that wage. And they'd take care of you. And they wanted to keep you around. And now it's like... Cappo (07:34) Yeah. Adrian (07:44) that it's as an employee, it's in your interest to jump job hop, because each time you switch jobs, you get a rise, and you're unlikely to get one sticking at one business. And as a sign for the employer, it's better to hire someone because your hiring budget is higher than your retention budget most of the time. So Cappo (07:50) Yeah. 100%. Yeah. Which is kind of fucked, don't you think? Adrian (08:07) Oh, it's a terrible idea. It's a terrible idea. You want to keep the same person... And it's expensive in invisible ways. Like, I'm not really a white collar guy. This is my first white collar job ever. But even working at this pub slash bottle shop, which shall remain nameless, they had this really high turnover rate and it just caused constant problems because there's a million things you've got to do in one of those kinds of jobs. And... Cappo (08:10) because onboarding is so expensive. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Adrian (08:37) it's up to the person who have been there long enough to have learned it from somebody else. So if you lose that link, it becomes all this information knowledge needs to be relearned normally when something really bad happens that needs to be fixed extremely quickly. It's the same thing, similar things happening in the education system. There's plenty of teachers that have been doing it their whole lives. There's plenty of graduates, but we're losing that middle chunk. Cappo (08:41) Yep. Yeah, yeah, 100%. Adrian (09:05) teachers that have been doing for like five to 10 years because they're moving on because of many different reasons. But you're losing that. Yeah, get paid for it elsewhere, the job's easier. Like, you really got, it's kind of a job, or at least I think you really have to enjoy it. Otherwise it would be a living nightmare. So like, but yeah, all these graduate teachers need those sort of five to 10 year teachers to learn from. They're a really valuable source of information because they're kind of close enough to the developments in pedagogy. Cappo (09:12) Get paid better elsewhere or whatever else. Oh, totally. Adrian (09:34) to help you and close enough to your age, I guess, to understand what you're going through. Whereas a lot of the sort of like late later stage teachers that have been doing it for a career for a long time, it's like unconscious about almost because they're just so practiced at it. Cappo (09:41) Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, dude. And you know what? It's funny because you do see that. Like I feel like that's not a isolated issue, right? Like even in development, you know, finding developers that will stick in one spot is difficult because they're not rewarded to stay where they are a lot of time. Right. Yeah. And that's the thing is, is like, you know, you could potentially save yourself a shitload of money if you just looked after your Adrian (09:59) Mm. Yeah, 100%. Cappo (10:16) current employees. And you don't realize like brain drain is such a horrific concept that people just don't put enough effort into thinking about finally enough given the night. But it's one of those things that like, it's a significant, like drawdown on finance. And also just general morale, you know what I mean? Like it's, yeah. Adrian (10:17) Yeah. Oh, a hundred percent. Oh yeah, just, and even like just the ease at which you complete tasks, you know, which is massive. But it's not, it's almost invisible. It's hard to see compared to a bottom line. Yeah. Cappo (10:45) Yeah. Yeah. Fucking crazy, man. Well, how was the Easter after the first term that was, my friend? Adrian (10:56) Oh dude, dude was so good man. I just sat around, I played some video games and then went saw my father's family yesterday, had some turkey, good gravy, mashed potato, et cetera. It was fun, man, enjoyed it. It's been good so far. How you going, how's your Easter? Cappo (11:03) Love it. Oh, nice man. Yeah. Love it. Yeah, wicked, mate. Bloody good, mate. We went to Dunsborough down south, which is about three hours out of Perth, southwest ish. Well, it is southwest. So we cruised down there on the Friday. First thing, Ted woke up at 530, got straight onto the onto the freeway. Bang, down there, we managed to miss pretty much all of the Adrian (11:37) Nice. Cappo (11:39) crazy maniacal, you know, holiday traffic that happens over the Easter long weekend. So that was good. Um, got there, kind of cruise, hung out with my uncle who was down there as well, had a few tins. Lovely. And then, um, we went to, um, what we do. The next day we went to the country animal life farm. Ted saw a bunch of animals for the first time and that was sick. Um, really cool. Managed to, you know, feed and Adrian (11:42) Yeah. That's the dream. Cappo (12:07) like carrot sticks to rabbits and donkeys and shit. It was really cool. So he loved that big time. And then just kind of cruised around. We went to the beach. That was good fun. I had a bit of a dip down at the Dunsborough Sharknet because I refused to swim outside of sharknets. Yeah, I just I just do not know why you would do it like outside of there. It's terrifying. I don't know about you, but I can't think of a worse way to die. Adrian (12:09) Yeah dude, that'd be so fun. It just makes sense. Just good practice. Mm. Oh yeah, 100%. I don't go into the ocean. You know, just as a blanket rule. Cappo (12:38) Yeah. I mean, I'm basically the yeah, I mean, I look exactly like every single thing that a shark eats. So I don't want to improve my chances of that happening. So, you know. Adrian (12:52) Yeah, I mean, yes, certainly there's like ignorance and then there's sort of intentional disregard for the food chain. Cappo (12:55) Yeah. You're completely sabotaged your life. So I don't want to do that any longer. But yeah, look, it was awesome. We came back on Sunday. And then we caught up with me as sort of the family. And then kind of today just kind of cruised around a little bit of work to do, despite being Easter Monday, but you know, sometimes he's gonna get in there. But yeah, it's been fucking wonderful. Other than that, really good. Really good little Easter break. So yeah. Adrian (13:23) Awesome. Hey, beautiful. Cappo (13:25) But yeah, now look, we're gonna stop talking about Ace of Makes. We got a lot of freaking shit to talk about. So let's freaking dive straight in, my good friend. Look, firstly, just want to say, yes, Chris isn't here this week. We have shifted to the fortnightly recording schedule now. If you didn't hear about that, you would have you may have heard of in the last episode, moving from the weekly to the fortnightly, just because it's fucking easier. You know, there's only so many hours in the day. And I'll tell you what, I feel like there's even less than that. Adrian (13:31) Yeah, let's get into it. Cappo (13:56) currently so yeah child also makes it very difficult so um also works just requiring a lot of me angers at the moment so we kind of thought you know what fortnightly I know that's what you're gonna do so yeah that's what we're doing now just want to say a big thanks to all of our wonderful patreon subscribers you guys frickin rock they are the legends that can put some dollars in our pocket every frickin week baby they are the following legends I'm Adrian (13:58) Yeah, you have a child, you have a small child. Yeah, nice fit. Cappo (14:25) GD, JLibs, Brendan, Strops and Slatos. Thank you for your continued patronage. Appreciate you immensely. Now, if you wanna watch this show live, you can do so every Monday night, 7 p.m. Australian, where's the standard time? Otherwise, we're available on every single podcasting platform, you can find us, yeah, Spotify, as your apples, et cetera, or just go to ogr.show and you'll find all of our fricking links there, baby. All right, now, let's fricking. Read this freaking quest log. We got some shit to talk about. Big time. Now, Adrian, did you manage to play a bit of Dragon's Dogma? Adrian (15:03) I did, yeah, I played about four hours maybe so far. I'm enjoying it. Yeah, it's cool, it's interesting compared to, I mean, I'm pretty sort of fresh to it. I played the first one a little bit, just couldn't get into it, but I thought I'd check the second one out. Yeah, I'm enjoying it. How have you been playing it? Cappo (15:08) That's a good little, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I have to yeah, so I probably got well, I'll tell you exactly how many hours I've got. I have got 9.2 hours. So I've picked you on about five, but I imagine that our, you know, general maybe kind of approach and stuff has been fairly similar. So I mean, before we dive into the controversies that are surrounding the game at the moment, let's just freaking talk about what we think. And so I'm just gonna open it up. I think this is one of the better Adrian (15:33) Okay. Cappo (15:53) Action RPGs I've played in a very long time. There's a lot, I think, to like about it. And I will kind of put a line in the sand. When I say action RPGs, I'm almost ignoring Soulsborne because I kind of feel like they exist in a separate kind of bucket that this particular game doesn't inhabit, but it definitely lends from that bucket. But I'm gonna, I was talking to a friend today. And they put it in a, you know, despite having not played it. They put it in a really good example. It's kind of like a blend between almost souls born, but Skyrim, but probably closer to the Skyrim side of things. But they have all the kind of janky Japanese like RPG UI systems and all that kind of shit going on. Um, but I'm just really enjoying the general gameplay loop of this game and how it approaches. the whole idea of Western fantasy and putting that kind of spin on it. You know, the whole game is surrounded by you being this, you know, this figure in history that seems to be getting resurrected time and time again, you're the reason basically a dragon pops up out of nowhere suddenly needs to be slain and it steals your heart. And then you go on a big old quest to, you know, do the, you know, the slaying deed. Now surrounding all that. being the kind of, you know, very distilled kind of law of the game. The combat is just a lot of fun. You kind of going out into the world, it's nice and open, though, you know, very trailed and stuff. So you sort of following trails and you kind of find little things off the trail and doing bits and pieces. But, you know, it's kind of got your fairly standard action RPG combat, but then it kind of flourishes into these many classes that you can play between magic and archery and rogue and, you know, more kind of melee based, you know, sword and shield and great weapons. But the crux of a lot of it is these massive enemies that you can climb on and slap with your sword or whatever else. And it kind of has lends a little bit from Shadow of the Colossus, maybe not as puzzly, but... you know, that kind of idea of climbing on the bosses and smacking them. And the combat just feels really good. It almost feels like they've managed to pull all the good things out of like Black Desert online and kind of create something that has a little bit less, um, I dunno, pizzazz and, you know, just optics. It kind of just feels like a really fun, um, kind of tightly knit, uh, yeah, just responsive combat system. And then tying it all with, you know, this kind of, you know, you're leveling up your specific specializations and stuff. And you've got these dudes that run around you called pawns, and you can get them to kind of fill other classes to kind of round out your party. I'm having a lot of fun with it. I think I really like the approach to exploration in the game big time. I feel like when I go out, I'm learning, I'm finding new shit to do. And I'm kind of being challenged, but not overly challenged. Adrian (19:03) Mmm, yeah. Cappo (19:12) But then also I feel like all the stuff I'm finding in the world is, uh, I guess just kind of like not shit. You know what I mean? I think that was one thing without an ring, you know, you kind of find interesting loot. Whereas with this, you do also find interesting. There's a lot of consumables and stuff that you're finding and utilizing. Um, but yeah, I feel rewarded every time I go out and, you know, you do, you do end up doing some pretty big significant tracks cause you've got to cover a lot of ground to go and get shit done. Adrian (19:22) Yes, this feels good. Yeah. Cappo (19:41) And it just doesn't really, it doesn't baby you much. And it doesn't teach you an awful lot out the bat. You kind of got to learn a little bit, some pieces. And I really liked that about this game. There's a lot of things I really like about it. But what about you, Adrian? How's your first four hours feel? Adrian (19:54) Well, I'm playing a mage, which is something that I would never do in an RPG where it was just you in a party. But because of the pawn system and the fact that you can round out your party to four players, it's really fun to be standing back and I'm probably just going to make a character that buffs my pawns and gets them to run in. And bust chops. And I, yeah, I do think that system is really cool and interesting. And I don't, I can't really think of at least right now, another game that does something like that, because your pawns actually learn from what you make them do. So like, if you're constantly recalling your pawns to protect you, they become more likely to protect people. The same is true if you send them out to attack, they become more aggressive. So when you, cause the cool thing about it, I think is that you can. send your pawns out into other people's games and they can hire them and have them fight with them. And then they come back and they've got a bunch of experience and like an item for you, which is very interesting. And it's just really fun to sort of be messing around with that. I feel like I haven't really kind of got to grips of like the whole commanding stuff. I don't know how deep it is or if it's going to be deep enough to be really, really interesting. But there's so many cool things that this system allows them to do. It's like, I was running down a trail, obviously, and I found this like little like outcropping thing and I ran up there and killed a bunch of goblins, you know, because they're goblins. And then I found this chest, opened it up, got this like cool hat. And then one of the pawns that I had at my party was from another person's game. And they referenced the fact that they're. or Risen or whatever hadn't found that item. You know, which I think is like, it was actually a really cool kind of feeling because it makes you feel like, oh cool, you know, I found something at least reasonably special because it was said to me that not everybody finds this, which I think is very cool. And I had sort of think of, I had a thought when you were talking about how it's like less flashy than other sort of action RPGs. And I think that's Cappo (22:02) Yeah. Adrian (22:14) probably because if you had all this lens flare and particle effects and stuff, it would be very hard to see what your pawns were doing. So it's like, I think it's quite a format game. It's doing a lot of really interesting things. And yeah, the fact that you kind of have to, there's like no fast travel. I think you get a cart and there's also like an item you can find or buy with real money that allows you to teleport from place to place. Cappo (22:21) Oh shit yeah. Yeah. Adrian (22:43) which is good, but it caused a lot of consternation, as it always does. But at least now I kind of get the feeling that like traveling between towns, that's the game. And you shouldn't want to skip the game. So if the game is at a certain point where like it's preferable to skip it, then you need to design a better game. It's like Death Stranding was probably least one that I recall playing and going, it's just really fun to go from. Cappo (22:43) Yep. Yeah. No. Adrian (23:12) place to place, you know, and I mean, that's the whole game, right, is delivering stuff, taking more, taking more stuff further in quicker times. And, you know, my partner hates me playing it, because she reckons it's insanely boring. But just, you know, getting your getting your pack, right? Picking all your stuff you need. Picking a good Yeah, it's like, I think the Yeah, and I think that's sort of similar to this red dragons dogma. Cappo (23:17) Exactly, it's a walking sim, you know. Hahaha Yeah. Need to weigh it properly, you know? Adrian (23:41) It's like Death Stranding was the only guy for one of the first sort of 3D games by open world that I remember playing and going like, oh, the terrain actually like really matters. Whereas if you're playing like your Far Cry or your Assassin's Creed or whatever, it's like if you want to go somewhere, you just go as fast as you can in the direction of that thing. And very rarely do you have to like adjust your path. But in Death Stranding, it's like you adjust your path about 10 minutes before you start and then you keep doing it. Cappo (24:02) Whatever you want. Adrian (24:11) I think that's another really cool thing about Dragon's Dogma. I feel like they can afford to not have fast travel because traveling is the game. Finding new things is the game. Cappo (24:19) Yeah. And I think they they've mentioned that is, is that they think well, the then when I say they are the developers, there was some early commentary that they made about the use of fast travel in video games these days and how it kind of detracts from, I guess, just the overall attention to detail that developers will put into their open world because they tend to kind of, what do you call it? Adrian (24:40) Mmm Cappo (24:45) concentrate that attention to detail and maybe some of the environmental storytelling into certain areas that coincide with fast travel locations or whatever, which then reduces your need to put an awful lot of effort into your open world games. And we're getting to this point where the idea of open world becomes you just fast traveling to the closest point. Adrian (24:56) Yeah. Cappo (25:13) wherever you want to go and then walking, you know, 100 meters or whatever. But I think with this, with Dragon's Dogma 2, they've found this really neat kind of, again, just comes to this gameplay loop where I feel compelled to go walk down that track, even multiple times, because shit's changing every time I walk down that track, there's a fucking giant fucking ogre there this time. And, you know, last time there was all these scaly blokes, like Adrian (25:14) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (25:40) cruising around on the beach and then you know, you go at night and then fucking shit's completely different all over again, you know, so I think they've done a really good job of providing you with consistent variations in your expectations for that particular part of the game, which is, you know, just getting around. And if you can make getting around fun, like fuck, all you got to do is just nail the story. And in my opinion, They're doing a pretty good job with the story. A little bit funky at the beginning where shit's just kind of all happening at once. You're like, what the fuck's going on here? Um, I definitely criticized like Starfield for having maybe a similar approach to narrative, but I do feel like they managed to wrap it up by the time you get to the first major city, which you might not be there. So I won't say anything about that. Yep. So I won't say anything about this exactly. I won't say anything about story, but they, they do a good job of kind of wrapping that up in a bunch of quests that Adrian (26:12) Yeah. I don't know what's happening. Yeah, I'm on my way. Yeah, got sidetracked. Cappo (26:35) just feel really nicely put together. And I think that was one thing that caught me off guard a little bit is I was quite impressed with just the, I guess the integration of the story with the quest line and you utilizing the game systems in slightly different ways to achieve your goals and stuff. Um, again, I don't want to say too much that I would spoil anything for anyone who hasn't finished it or, you know, hasn't started playing yet. Uh, but I think it's just my expectations of RPG and what they're doing with it at the moment. They're not being completely upended or anything, but they're taking it in just enough different ways to really string me along and, and yeah, I'm just, I'm really enjoying my time with it. It's another thing is Adrian, I feel like I don't have to just devote my every second of my life to this game. Cause I feel like. Adrian (27:29) Yeah. Cappo (27:30) It's kind of one of those things where I feel like I'm going to have these mini adventures every time I load it up and go and do, I can go into this quest and I can kind of piecemeal and bite size those quests one at a time where is yeah. Adrian (27:41) Well, yeah, because the fact that you can just save it whenever you want, like auto-save, and then your proper saves come from finding a town and sleeping in an inn, means that like I was playing it earlier today and then I just stopped and do some other stuff and like if I couldn't just save it then, then it would be like I'd be pushing myself to get to the next point or abandoning that progress and never playing the game again. So it's like... Cappo (28:05) Yeah, yeah. Adrian (28:10) You know, if you think about it, there's no fast travel in it. And some people might accuse them of that, of meaning that they don't respect your time. But they really do because they're like, well, no, you spend your time however you want. And if you need to leave, just save it and go come back. You'll be right here. You know, but it's still, um, still rewards and reinforces that idea of like, you are going from place to place. And so getting to a new place, that should be a big deal. Going to the inn and sleeping should be a big deal. Cappo (28:25) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and it is, because it also costs a shitload of money to go and sleep in the internet. I've noticed that yet, but I know, dude, I was like, that bed better be fucking silken. Yeah, it crazy. Yeah. But one thing I will say again, kind of still going on this fast travel bit is I think the, like the reason that they've gone so hard on, on not like promoting you to fast travel too much is because like, there's a lot that pushes you. Adrian (28:39) which I think is really good. Dude, I was like, three grand? I was like, are you serious? 3,000 bucks? Yeah, dude. I couldn't believe it. Cappo (29:06) to try out all the different classes and there's shit loads. I don't know how many exactly there are, but I've probably got access to maybe six. Yeah, and you kind of find more as you go. So there might be more than nine. I'm gonna guess maybe 10 to 11, maybe even as much as 12, but they do really promote you to try these different classes out and just kind of give them a bit of a crack because it's so easy to change the pawns that you've got. You know, you have one main pawn with you that you can... Adrian (29:10) Yeah. I think there's nine, maybe? Nine of... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (29:34) alter and give them a different kind of, you know, job, like you probably want to stick to a fairly classic kind of build of healer, couple of DPS and a, and a tank, for example. And it's very easy to switch that up on the fly. Every time you come back to a city, like you go and find a couple extra new pawns, switch them out, change to your main pawns job, and then you can change yours to whatever you like. It's very streamlined in that sense and I don't feel like I have to sink an awful lot of time into the kind of You know come back to town do all this shit and then I can get back out again but yeah, just I think that whole approach to you know, making the trekking and the trek itself fun and You know a useful part of the game because you probably want to you know, level up your Your vocations or whatever they're called and try them out Adrian (30:02) Mm. Yeah, keep that variability, you know, that flexibility. Cappo (30:31) Yeah, exactly right. So yeah, exceptionally fucking fun game. And yeah, there's just little things that I keep noticing about the game that I go, man, it's such a cool way to go about doing that. And yeah, it doesn't is again, look, it's definitely not an Elven Ring. But I definitely am thoroughly enjoying my time with it at the moment. So Adrian (30:54) Yeah, I feel that also I feel like you can't really hold the fact that it is an Elden Ring against it because almost no games Elden Ring. Yeah, and that's not what it's trying to do. You're right. It's doing something very different. Cappo (31:00) No, not at all, because it's not what it's trying to do. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Um, but one thing that has kind of been getting around Adrian is that, uh, so some people incorrectly, um, stated that, uh, Capcom basically tried to kind of sneakily bring micro transactions into this game, um, you know, before the reviews and stuff came out, since came out that, um, the microtransaction side of stuff was actually available and a lot of reviews just didn't kind of mention it because they're too busy with the game. And I think it's also, you know, maybe I'll just before I sort of dive too far into that, I will say that yes, there are microtransactions in this game and it's turned a lot of people off the game or made them turn their nose up about it. And I totally get that because... the things that you purchase from this game are things like fast travel fucking enablers and you know, ways to improve your chances at rolling stats on your pawns and all that kind of shit. One thing I will say is since I've been playing as I've had no reason to buy any shit, because I've been very happy to, you know, enjoy the game systems that they're offering me. But also on top of that, I just feel like it's balanced to a point where I don't need to extra stuff. So the actual microtransaction store so far has not really been useful for me at all. And then also, I actually have no idea how to get to the store. I've not had anything advertised to me at all. So I don't know about your playthrough. Adrian (32:24) Yeah. Yeah, and that's, I completely forgot now microtransactions out. Cause I've read a little bit about that stuff a couple of weeks ago. But yeah, and that's a really good point, I think. The fact that how, like as you say, how unobtrusive the microtransaction store is, I think it's a really good indicator of their feeling of microtransactions. Like, I don't know if you remember Diablo 4, when you'd like click on the store, it would like, Cappo (32:44) Yeah. Yeah, dude. Adrian (33:09) have your cursor hovering over the by the battle pass or whatever which is like a small thing yeah it's a small thing but it is extremely scummy you know to the point where you're like yeah dark patterns yeah but it's like it's just so egregious and not even that I don't know how effective it would be but just have your mouse cursor where it was you know just do that people are gonna buy people are gonna buy Cappo (33:14) Yeah, so you could accidentally misclick it. They call it dark patterns, Adrian. Those are called dark patterns, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. But I mean, it Fortnite's done it and Fortnite's been pinged for it. You know? Adrian (33:40) Yeah, so people are gonna buy heaps of your stuff, man. They're gonna do it. So just let them do it. You don't have to just bring every... Sorry, I'm about to start ranting. Cappo (33:43) Yeah. And then, yeah, but then also, like, gamers are pretty fickle, you know, right? Like you start doing shit like that, word gets around, and then people get angry, and then people start review bombing your shit. So it's like, just like, yeah, ultimately, if people accidentally buy the thing, they're probably going to want to refund. So it's probably in your best interest just to make it so that doesn't happen. But yeah. Adrian (33:56) Yeah. Yeah. And how much of your profits is that? What percentage of your profits is that kind of thing gonna get you? Like 0.1, 0.01, I don't know. Cappo (34:16) Look, it would have to be basically fucking nothing, but yeah. Adrian (34:21) Yeah, I think it just speaks to like the drive and the minds behind the game. It's like a 0.01% increase in profits is worth doing that. I think this kind of stuff, I think we can talk about it a bit later as well. Cause I think one of the games we're going to talk about later on, I think that's a really good job with micro transactions. But yeah, I think, yeah, Drag's Dogma. I'm having a good time. Cappo (34:29) Yeah. Yeah, well exactly. Yep, chef's kiss so far. Yep, love it. Yep. Adrian (34:51) Maginot. Yeah, I think it just does enough different to be really appealing. Cappo (34:57) Yeah, I love it. Yeah, I think even just kind of going back to that. The micro transaction stuff. You know, the other thing is, if you don't like it, they've already got shit on Gamma Nexus, whatever it's called the modding website that enables basically the ability to purchase the stuff that's generally only attainable through micro transactions in a they've modded a, you know, like a merchant, you can buy all the shit from and also infinite save slots, which again, I've not really had an issue with because I'm quite happy just having one save slot. So it's maybe. Adrian (35:33) Yeah, especially if you consider that you can change your class at will. Cappo (35:39) Exactly. I don't really see the need to have multiple things. I do think there's an element of people just enjoying to have a bit of a complaint here and there. And like, look, totally fucking exercise your will to comply. I totally fucking get that. But look, I don't think the market transactions are as bad. And look, maybe one thing I will say is also having this conversation about micro transactions. Adrian (35:48) So 100%. Cappo (36:04) I don't want to give them a green light because I don't like microtransactions in general. I just want to play a game and not have to deal with that shit. So I hesitate to say not as bad as I've seen elsewhere because that's how things get bad over time. But I do feel like a lot of the reason they're even in this game is because of classic corporate fucking bullshit. But I just don't think that they would have been allowed to make this game. without a micro transaction store. And I've, because the first game didn't sell particularly well. So I'm in all honesty, I'm fucking surprised this game even exists. And I think ultimately, how they managed to get it in, because I think the main guy who created this was created Devil May Cry or whatever. And I think obviously, this guy has just wanted to fucking do this game for ever and wanted to get it cranking and managed to get over the line. And probably one of the stipulations was, all right. Adrian (36:41) Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. Cappo (37:03) We'll put a fucking microtransaction story in there, but it can't be in your face. Adrian (37:07) Yeah, and then yeah, so he would have built up a bit of a cache, make it Devils May Cry one through how many they are, which have all pretty fun. And then he got to do this passion project. So yeah, that's probably why it's a good guy. Cappo (37:17) Yeah. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you just got to, you know, lick the hand that feeds, you know what I mean? No biting. All right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. But I'm just thinking what else I had to say about this. Look, I think ultimately, like, yeah, I'm really, I'm exceptionally stoked with Adrian (37:26) Yeah, that's it. Jurassic, you know, it's Spielberg goes Jurassic Park, but he gets to do Schindler's List. Trailers all the time. Cappo (37:46) what this game has become for me and I'm really looking forward to putting more fucking hours into this because yeah, it's been a fucking pleasure so far so I can you know Capcom good on you know I mean it'd be nice if we didn't have microtransactions but look I get it at least you're not fucking making me accidentally sign up to a fucking battle pass so Adrian (37:54) Yeah, okay. or like, I always remember Rainbow Six Siege. It's like I bought that game because my mate wanted me to get into it. I bought it and I've got like two characters and then all the other characters I got to buy. And it's like, but I just gave you money. Where's the game that I bought? You know, same thing, For Honor, Ubisoft again. It's like, just sell me the game, thank you. I'll buy it for you, then I'll play it. And that'll be that. Cappo (38:21) Yeah. Yeah, actually. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, the issue is, and we've kind of spoken about this on the podcast before is that there's too many games markets that have been purely rewarded from free to play, pay mechanics, that it's only ever going to bleed back into, you know, the more mains, well, I say mainstream, but I mean, realistically, the casual games market makes way more fucking money than what any single player video game does ever. So Adrian (38:45) Yeah, yeah, it's just. Yeah. Cappo (38:59) you know, it's very difficult for these corporations that are all about making money to, you know, separate themselves from the fact that some games make lots more money. And how do they do that by having these small little piecemeal payments that you can do to get a cool new helmet for, you know, 50 cents here and there. And, you know, a lot of those over time mean x dollars, right? And I, oh, we can make them pay full price for a video game and then also pay for that little cool helmet. Fuck, why don't we just do that? You know, it's just Adrian (39:18) Yeah. Cappo (39:29) For them, it's a no brainer. Exactly. And I mean, realistically, if people don't like it, they need to stop buying it, but they're not fucking stopping buying it because they're putting in these games and that's the only reason they'd be doing it. So, the trade-off of the, I guess, overall sentiment towards these developers is virtually, it's not bad enough to warrant them not doing it. So, keep doing it. Exactly. Adrian (39:29) It's so easy. Yeah. Yeah, people will bow on them. Oh, a hundred percent. The money is there. And I think like, I mean, personally, I don't have like a problem with micro transactions inherently. I feel like it's all in the way that they're both advertised to the player and what they take away from the game. That's really the problem. And I think it's different for every game. And you know, some publishers are much worse than others. Cappo (40:20) Yeah, I think you can, you can, and I know exactly what you're talking about when you're talking about like, I guess, I'm going to put in quotations, good micro transactions, or we talk about further on the show, but I think there is a way to bridge, you know, thoughtful micro transactions in a way that doesn't completely scumbag your player audience. And as there are examples. Adrian (40:47) Yeah, that already blew your gun. Cappo (40:50) Exactly. Like, I think a lot of that just comes down to thoughtful games mechanics and having a game ecosystem where people might want to spend money on cosmetics and look a little bit, you know, different, you know, and that's fine, you know, because, you know, it costs money to keep these servers on. I remember Power World's server costs were fucking like $200 million or something ridiculous. Like, you know, these games are expensive to... continue to run. And so if you have all of your money come at you in the initial kind of sales phase, and then people are ongoing, playing your game, and you're having to maintain services, it's expensive. I get that, you know, they need to they need to keep these lights on. So, you know, if they want to do that, fucking go for it. Anyways, we've just we've managed to turn this into a fucking micro trace. Should fucking episode. You know, is all right now, moving along Adrian. Adrian (41:31) Yeah. Cappo (41:47) PS5 Pro. Now you've got a PS5 don't you mate? Adrian (41:50) I do. I do have one. Cappo (41:52) Would you call yourself a Sony fanboy? Adrian (41:56) Um, nah, I think that I've had most of the over my lifetime. I've switched pretty readily from console to console. I think I had an Xbox 360. Had a 64 obviously. Had a PlayStation 3. You know, had a bunch. Just jumped back and forward. Random. But yeah, I've got a PS5 and I like it. I think it's really good. Cappo (42:07) Yep. Yeah. The goat. Yeah. It just kind of, I suppose it, it kind of comes down to whatever's going on in the generation. Right? Like I feel like the, all the ones that you've just mentioned have been the, the winners. Like, you know what I mean? Adrian (42:24) Yeah. Yeah, I think that's it's like the it's the exclusive right like I got the PS5 because the last of us two was coming out on You know and then and death loop And so I was like well, I'm gonna buy this one, you know, and then god of war and it comes out Well back then I think came out on the playstation. I was like well Go play that I'm gonna play god of war ragnarok. Oh, what will I do with myself? Otherwise, so I think that's like the big Was a big reason Cappo (42:33) Yeah. Yeah, well yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, exactly. Adrian (42:58) between me getting a PS5 over an Xbox. I mean, I've got a PC, a gaming PC that's okay, but I find as I get older, I have less and less time for fixing computers and calculating what parts I need to buy, what order, you know? So a PS5 from my old brand is much easier. Cappo (43:01) Yeah. Yeah, does the job. Yep. Yep. Yep. Well, look, it looks like we're getting another PS5, whether we need it or not, you know, time will tell. But looking at the specifications that have recently leaked. So I'm just going to read these out for word verbatim because look, I don't really care about the teraflops, but people need to know. So... Adrian (43:27) Yeah. Cappo (43:42) It says that the CPU is apparently identical to the current PS5, however, there is a high frequency CPU mode, which allows for an extra 10% juice. And then on top of that, the GPU enables faster rendering and higher quality ray tracing powered by 33.5 teraflops. The standard PS5 offers 10.28 teraflops. However, I direct PS5 to PS5 Pro comparison would work out at around 10.28 to versus 16 to 17 teraflops. So it's all fucking garbo. But you know, on top of that, they're also saying that there's some kind of AI super resolution upscaling thing that they've got coming out called PSSR, which is PlayStation that utilizes some machine learning shit. And on top of that, apparently it has a detachable disk drive and one terabyte of storage space. Basically, there's some minor changes. These aren't massive. And if we look at generation to generation changes and even like mid-generation changes, so for example, the PS4 and the PS4 Pro, this is a fairly meager jump in specs based on those previous generations. Uh, so a lot of developers are kind of coming out and saying, I don't know why this thing exists, like apparently the PS five is in its final, you know, trimester of, uh, of its life cycle. Uh, we'd probably be looking towards the PS six in which there's apparently already been rumors about, uh, and so people are kind of scratching their head saying, well, fuck white, why are they announcing this thing? What's, what's its deal? And, uh, the big kind of. Adrian (45:31) No, thank you. Cappo (45:38) rumor floating around is it's basically being put on the market as a GTA six machine. Adrian (45:47) Oh yeah, that makes sense. Um, the other thing I was thinking is it possible that it, um, it's happening because there was something I heard vaguely recall about the PS5 chips being not made anymore or difficult to make or something like that. So maybe they're, the, you know, sort of the, that middle gap that you're talking about, the pros or whatever for each sort of console, console life cycle has maybe been brought forward. Cappo (45:49) So, yeah. Yeah. I think you're probably right. I think there's probably a bit of a sum of all things happening here. I think we've probably hit that sweet spot in the console generation, like you mentioned, where the architecture is probably maybe slightly cheaper and they can squeeze a little bit more out for a similar, maybe slightly more expensive price point and put the pro wording on it. Adrian (46:17) a little bit a year or two to compensate for that maybe. Yeah. Cappo (46:42) Also, the PS5 standard sales have dropped off significantly from memory. I think there was some recent articles in the last kind of few months about just the fact that, you know, globally sales and the PS5 have slowed down, which is natural towards the end of its life cycle, because people already have it and you know, whatever else. So how do you get people excited? Exactly. So. Adrian (47:03) Yeah, people can buy it now. Cappo (47:08) And some people do actually wait for the pro version of consoles in the mid generation, because just, you know, how they rock and roll. So you'll kind of capture those people. Plus the people who, you know, are just those people who want to always have the latest console, so they'll buy the new one. But then, yeah, the other, other kind of side of the coin is the fact that. Yeah. GTA six is probably going to be a pretty full on graphically intensive game. Um, maybe there's some kind of communication between rock star and Sony about trying to get something out. That is the fucking way to play GTA six because from memory, I think GTA five took a year or so to come out on, on PC. Uh, so if we're kind of in between these, this console cycle, uh, maybe we need a little bit of extra juice just to make it look silky smooth. Um, but I don't know about you, Adrian. Like if that is truly. how they could go about, you know, marketing a console or whatever. I kind of just feel like it's a little bit scummy because now it's kind of like, OK, here's GTA 6 and yeah, it's fine on the PS5, but trust me, you're going to want to play on the PS5 Pro. You know what I mean? Adrian (48:18) Yeah, and I think that's probably, I'd say there's probably a fair bit of truth to that, that thinking because GDOS series is a massive game, massive series, obviously, it appeals to a great many people that don't necessarily play a lot of video games. Like everybody knows about GDOS, you know? It's like cultural cache or whatever is a lot wider than other games, you know? possibly maybe the most famous one, or at least the most widely appealing. So it makes sense for Sony to go, well, you know, we jump on board with GDA 6, we give them specifications or whatever they can use to make the game look incredible. They sell more games, we sell more PS5 Pros, we both win. Yeah. And you've got... Cappo (49:12) Everyone wins. Except the consumer. Ha ha ha. Adrian (49:16) Well, yeah, but I mean, you got like, you got like 40 more torn flops or whatever. So that's pretty good. I'll probably buy one. I'll be honest with you. I'm going to buy one, I reckon when it comes out. Well, maybe after, but yeah, cause I, yeah, one thing I noticed with Dragon's Dogma, yeah, I'll do, yeah, I'll do something. I'll get it somehow. Um, one thing I noticed with Dragon's Dogma is it's like my feeling anyway, with, with games, it's like Dragon's Dogma looks great. It looks amazing. But for me, my preference is. Cappo (49:21) Yeah. There's a few flops in there. Yeah? You gonna do it? Just trade it up. Adrian (49:46) make the game look as bad as it has to, to give me just 60 frames a second all the time. That's all I want. And I found with, I forgot about it once I started playing it, but when I first started playing, I was like, jeez, it'd be good if this was just like a solid 60, you know? Because I'm not that, but I think that's like a preference for me. I'm not really that big on graphics. I want it to feel smooth, you know? That's all that matters. Cappo (49:55) Yeah. Yep. Losing you a little bit there, Adrian. I think we lost a little bit of your, Yeah, of course. Yeah. 100% Adrian (50:15) In my opinion, I want the game to constantly be the same. Cappo (50:19) Yeah, I've always been kind of the same, but you know, when it comes to graphical modes, or whether you play the performance mode, I'm always going to go for the extra frames because I think like for me, personally, the fluidity of the experience is way more important. Now we'll say the and we spoke about a couple of weeks back or whatever. Final Fantasy seven rebirths. Adrian (50:20) But yeah. 100% Cappo (50:44) performance mode is fucking garbage to the point where it's like, you know, all the textures are super blurry just to try and squeeze out those extra frames. And it's a hundred percent not worth playing. You may as well just play at 30 FPS and just have the game look nice. Obviously you, I think there's definitely something to that argument. You know, Adrian, about just the fact that, you know, maybe we are hitting this certain point in the console generation where we just not quite really able to maintain. Adrian (50:51) Yeah, right. Just need a little more, couple more. Just a little, just a touch of Sasquatch. Yeah, might do it. Cappo (51:11) Yeah, we said a little bit more juice, just a touch more juice and maybe the pro, you know, just a little bit more orange C, you know? So yeah, look, I'm, I'm looking forward to hearing the, the Adrian if I can review on that one then when it finally hits the hits the deck. Um, apparently there's going to be a really sexy new sleek design. Um, so yeah, you know, instead of it looking like a fucking, I don't know, like a, like a hater you bought off. Adrian (51:20) Yeah, just a little bit. Yeah, I'll grab one. I'll grab one. Okay. It looks like a dehumidifier. That's what it looks like. Cappo (51:41) TAMU or some shit. Yeah. Yeah, we'll see what design they come out with next. So yeah, there you go. So PS5 Pro, not sure when it's coming out, but I would well when was GTA 6 slated to hit the stores release date. Let's find out what that says. They're saying 2025, which is not this year. That's next year. So Adrian (52:06) Yeah, so what November, late November PS5 Pro. Yeah, okay. So maybe that will do a bundle when six comes out. Oh yeah, why didn't we be 2026 when it releases? Interesting. Cappo (52:16) I dare say they might. Yeah. Are you a GTA fan, Adrian? Like, is that your vibe? Adrian (52:25) Nah, I mean, I like sort of tearing around, like when you're hanging out with your mates and you just, you know, boot the game up and drive around and cause as much carnage as you can. I always found for me the narrative and sort of tone or theme of GDA was just not really... feels like it wasn't honest enough. They're always kind of winking at themselves and you know, and I feel like it just undercuts what should be like a serious... Cappo (52:31) Yes. Yep. Adrian (52:53) Or at least I prefer it to be. I thought Red Dead Redemption 2 was an incredible game because it was serious. You really fell for these characters in a bad situation and doing the best they can and making mistakes, messed up things happening, but there was this real gravitas or authenticity to the writing and voice acting in that game. Although I am, I find it quite appealing, the idea of GTA 6, you play two characters. Cappo (52:58) Yeah, yep. Yeah. Adrian (53:22) that are in a relationship. I think that's a really cool idea. I don't think it's ever been, or at least I think it's kind of mind up that it had been done before in a game. So that's cool to me. That's a really cool sort of narrative device that I think you could do a lot of fun stuff with. So I might find myself buying GDA6 on my new PS5 Pro. Cappo (53:36) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the whole Bonnie Clyde kind of, you know, narrative could be really cool and be interesting. Yeah, how that might play into. Yeah, even just decision making and how much, I guess, variability there is in potential decision making and what effects that might have on the other person or vice versa. Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see what they do with that game. I think. Adrian (53:48) Yeah, that's cool. That's a cool idea. There seems to be so much, you know? Cappo (54:22) Yeah, again, Adrian (54:27) Yeah. Cappo (54:40) not that it has to be realistic. But I feel like, you know, a more well thought out story that, you know, was rooted in some degree of realism would enable a better characterization. And, you know, personally, for me, draw me in a little bit more, because that's what I see in a lot of video games is a good story. So yeah. Adrian (54:48) Yeah. Yeah, it just needs like an emotional core. It feels like a GDAA games never really have that. At least for me when I play. Like, you know, real sort of risks beyond going to jail. Cappo (55:06) Yeah. Yeah. I think maybe a little bit of San Andreas, you know, that had a little bit, you know, but yeah. Adrian (55:15) Yeah, no, I did enjoy San Andreas. I thought they did it well then. I did enjoy that game. That was probably the last one I enjoyed, I think. Yeah. Cappo (55:20) Yeah. Yeah, I think when big smoke turns out to be the fucker bad guy, you just like, dude, I trusted you motherfucker, how dare you? Adrian (55:30) Dude man god that was yeah, that was trail and I felt that I felt that Because he talked a big game, you know Just turned out to be a scumbag Yeah, dude Yeah, that's what I'm talking about that's good that's I mean that's good content that's good content Cappo (55:34) Yeah. Significant. Yeah. Looking good. Well, I know. And he was your boy. He was your boy, man. I'm crazy. You know, girl. Yeah. We need more of that. Need fucking more of it. All right. Speaking of more, Adrian, give me the fucking skinny on Star Wars Battlefront Classic Collection, because I hear it is a fucking shamble. Adrian (55:52) Oh, 100%. Okay, so I didn't really know anything about Star Wars Battlefront. I never played the original when it came out because it came out in 2004. I was in Azeroth then pretty much full time, about four years. Just right, really just that was what I was doing. So I looked it up. It's a great idea for a game. God damn, what a fun game that would have been. But from what I could find out, it's pretty much just like the old games. Cappo (56:11) Oh yeah, I was probably somewhere there too. Yeah. Adrian (56:31) except that it's new. I don't think there's been any real sort of graphical or systems updates or anything. So it's basically like a port that didn't need to exist. Cappo (56:45) Yeah. Adrian (56:48) And, you know, I mean, I've got a pretty bad taste of my mouth from the latest or the most recent Star Wars Battlefront. Similar sort of feeling towards, you know, like Rainbow Six or pretty much any game, Ubisoft, Mac. It's like, I already bought the game from you. How come I have to play for 40 hours to unlock Darth Vader? It's like, either make it free to play and then I have to pay money to get the stuff I want or play. Cappo (56:56) Yeah, big time. Yeah. Adrian (57:18) play time, which I'm fine with, or make a full price, which it was, and give me the whole game. So yeah, and you know, I think the problems that I was sort of reading about for it, despite that, my sort of ideological objections to it, it's just really buggy. Like, so, you know, because you can still play the original one. Cappo (57:27) Death. Hahaha Adrian (57:48) You can still play those and they work. Cappo (57:50) Yeah, I think you can still even use those services like I can't remember the VPN service or whatever the fuck it is that you could use to create local games and stuff. But I think you could literally still use some of those like programs to run local games if you need to as well. You know, across the internet. Adrian (57:58) Yeah. Yeah, that's it. So it's like, even beyond that, it's a bad idea because if you're reselling the same game, all you're doing is splitting the player base, right? Because the two games can't interact. The old Star Wars Battlefronts and the Remastered or whatever it's called, Battlefront Classic or something. Those players can't play with each other. So you've just split your player base already. So yeah, I know it just doesn't make any sense to me. Cappo (58:27) Mm-hmm. Adrian (58:36) I don't know why they did it. They should have made the, they should have taken the money they spent on this and they should have put it into Respawn making the first person bounty hunter game, which is no longer getting released for some insane reason. It's like, that's just gonna make you a million dollars. And I say that sort of, they'll make you more than that obviously, but it just seems crazy to me, that they made this game and then they didn't make that game. Cappo (58:38) Yeah, I think it's. Yeah dude. Yeah. Adrian (59:05) But then I was thinking about it and it's like, starting with Battlefront is like, from a period of time where EA was actually sort of taking risks and making these kind of cool, interesting games like, yeah, massive, you know, battlefield style game, but it's Star Wars and there are also Jedi and Sith and, you know, heroes in there as well. It's a great idea for a game. And yeah, it's sort of like, you look at the kind of stuff they're doing now and there's no way they'd make a game like this. Cappo (59:06) But yeah. Adrian (59:34) So why did they remaster it? Why did they re-release it? It's like, they're not willing to take a chance on respawn, right? The guys who made Titanfall and Titanfall 2, and also Jedi Survivor and the other one, I can't remember his name at the moment. Those guys, to make a game in which you're a bounty hunter, who was also a Mandalorian, it just boggles the mind that you wouldn't go, that's just a sure thing. Cappo (59:53) anything. Yeah. Yeah. Adrian (1:00:03) That's going to make us so much money. Cappo (1:00:05) I mean, on paper it sounds fucking great, right? And also the huge success of the fucking Disney plus, you know, TV series. Like it just, it literally seems like a no brainer. Adrian (1:00:07) Dude! Yeah, it's like, the only explanation is that these, they don't know what they're doing. That's the only explanation because it would be, it just seems like that's just, just free money in your hand. It would be, it would just go gangbusters. Like there's so many demonstrations of why that would be a good idea. Obviously all the games that respawn make a good. Um, the Mandalorian was one of the, in my opinion, few good releases from the sort of since Disney picked up Star Wars. Cappo (1:00:20) Yeah. Yeah. Adrian (1:00:43) and you have a jetpack which is like, you know, that's $20 million right there probably. Cappo (1:00:48) Yeah. I mean, it basically writes itself, but I think you're right, Adrian. And like, you know, we've seen this so much recently is, is that, you know, AAA gaming is so much more difficult to turn a buck than it is for small indie developers these days because of the inherent risk of the scale at which they need to pull off projects and they're just not, they're just not ready to do it. And that's why they're transing transitioning. Adrian (1:01:07) Yeah. Cappo (1:01:18) across to more kind of free to play, you know, games as service markets, because those seem to be the new hotness that definitely makes money, despite the fact that they fucking don't if they are shit, just by the way. So you know, I think EA are probably in a similar boat, like we I think Sony as of like a year or so ago, they had something like fucking 20 fucking games as service games in development, they've scaled that back because of, you know, having to reduce their workforce. But Adrian (1:01:29) Yeah. Cappo (1:01:47) You know, that's where these, these larger developers are putting their time and effort, not into single player experiences. And despite the fact that we can see that, you know, if you put like, you know, enough time and effort in, and you get the right team and yada, you can, you can create a bold escape three. But I think the thing is that a lot of these companies just aren't willing to. Put that effort into hiring, put that effort into scaling a project and ensuring that it executes. because it's just, I think they just think it's too fucking hard. And maybe it is to some degree. I don't know, but yeah, it definitely seems like the star wars battle front classic collection, you know, whilst not being a direct kind of comparison across all this, you know, I think ultimately it just kind of shows that, uh, you know, EA and, you know, other similar companies are just kind of Garbo at the moment in being able to, you know, just pull shit off. They really have nothing. They've got fuck all. Yeah. Adrian (1:02:38) Yeah, they got nothing. Yeah, they got nothing, man. They got nothing, it sucks. They used to make good games, now they don't. Now the games that make it bad. And it's like, I'm sort of looking, like, you know, cause, what's that, what's that? Cappo (1:02:46) Yep. I mean, they've even- No, I was just going to say they've even gone as far to just, you know, utilize community made mods for their games in their remastered products without any attribution, which is, you know, okay, fair, a mod of a game that you've created, you might argue is technically your property. Regardless, you'd think there'd be some degree of attribution, which they did not do for Adrian (1:03:07) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (1:03:17) for battlefield for battlefront, which yeah, there's reports that there's the Aspia mod uses it is being utilized in this current thing. I don't know what the fuck the mod is. But you know, they're using a mod that they didn't attribute that's fucked up. Adrian (1:03:32) Yeah, I think it's yes. Yeah, I mean, even if it's like perfectly legal, it's not moral. And there's, I mean, there's a difference. And it's important. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I don't know, I don't have any answers other than execute every suit that lives. Yeah, beyond that, let's move on real quick. Let's wanna smash out this one. Cappo (1:03:40) Exactly. Yeah, exactly right. Yeah, yeah, I think that's the only answer. Adrian (1:04:02) So this is Will Smith's zombie game called undawn a name which sucks It was made by so it's published by ten cent the guys that do a bunch of mobile games Well, it's a part of exile which I did not know Which is pretty good game Cappo (1:04:06) Yeah. Known for really good video game development strategies. Adrian (1:04:19) Yeah, yeah. Anyway, developed by Lightspeed Studios, which is also another bad name. And yeah, I checked out a bit of it. It just looked real bad. It just bombed, man. I think it cost, I checked the numbers, it was like, it cost $140 million to make. That was a budget. Took like 300 developers over like four years or three years or something like that. And so one year after release, the month of March, it made $257,000. Cappo (1:04:27) Go up, man. Yeah. Yeah. Adrian (1:04:49) So I mean that's not great, you know. Will Smith is in it maybe or maybe he's just on the cover. Cappo (1:04:51) that's not even close to the amount of money they spent on it. So I, here's the, here's the funny part about that. Cause I had, I did a bit of, um, diving into his appearance in this game. Cause obviously he's bankrolled some of it and wanted to get a game out probably to do with the whole fucking, um, I am legend too thing and maybe just trying to gain some, um, general popularity back, um, regardless, uh, apparently he is in the game, but you have to get to a certain point. Adrian (1:05:15) Oh yeah. Cappo (1:05:24) in the game to find him and he's kind of out of the way. And even then it's not even him voice acting. It's someone pretending to be Will Smith. It's just crazy, man. You know? Yeah, it's just what. Adrian (1:05:35) Yeah, yeah, so I mean, yeah, that explains it. Yeah, I mean, I really have nothing to recommend about it. I'm having a look, except you can take baths. And that's pretty cool. You know, that's something they don't really, I know, and it's a great game. So there's something there. Um. Cappo (1:05:49) Um, you can take baths in Red Dead Redemption 2 though, Adrian. Yeah. Ripper game. Yeah. Parallels being drawn. Adrian (1:06:01) Yeah, I mean, so hopefully five years from now, games won't be live service anymore, but they will always have balance. And you will always be able to bathe your character. We can dream. Cappo (1:06:11) Yeah. Well, I mean, look, if any, if any community in this world needs lessons on how to on hygiene is probably the gamers. So, you know, maybe more of that would be good. Yeah, look, I feel for Will Smith, not really. But you know, it's, it's kind of hilarious how badly this is done. But it looks just like the screenshots I've seen. It looks like one of those games you see on Facebook, where it's like Adrian (1:06:24) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (1:06:40) They show you a video of the game. That's definitely not the gameplay at all, but it markets itself as gameplay. And it's like, obviously a render of some shit that they made. And it just looks like fucking utter garbage. And you know, you should not play this game. Yeah. It's one of those games. Adrian (1:06:53) Yeah, that's it. That's what that's what it was. Yeah, I was gonna say, if you want to play a good zombie game, you should play Days Gone. I thought they did a really good job with that. Didn't sell very well. They'll never be a sequel. But it really just yeah, it's good. You drive around a motorcycle and there are a bunch of zombies all the time and you shoot them, you know, just nice and easy. Yeah, I quite enjoyed that. Cappo (1:07:05) Yeah. Yeah. Um, tell you a really good zombie game is, um, dark souls fucking ripper. Um, and that's all I'll say. I'll walk away. Banger. Um, actually speaking of games with zombies in them, Baldur's gate three, Adrian. I mean, that's a fucking masterpiece. Let's be honest. Adrian (1:07:22) Yeah, true. That's full of zombies. Yeah, that's a great zombie game for sure. Yep. Dude, it's so good man. It's crazy how fun it is. I played through it with a couple of mates and we just did like multiplayer sessions. And it was hilarious. Just the sheer amount of stuff you can do, the way the narrative branches and just the combat. It's really fun and interesting. The voice acting is extremely good. The writing is extremely good. The characters feel like real people. Cappo (1:07:39) Yeah. Adrian (1:08:06) pretty horny, but that's cool. It's just well done. Like they just did good stuff with every part of the game. And then they, I mean, it took them ages to make, right? How long have they spent making it? Eight years, 12 years, something like that? Cappo (1:08:08) Yeah. Hey, it's fun. Oh man, I think this, yeah, it's something ridiculous, like, you know, six to seven years. I mean, what's his name, Vinswik or some shit, the, you know, main dog at, at Larry and studio as he recently did a, I think, I think in any speech he mentioned that they, you know, they've been working on the game for something like that. And just to kind of slightly deviate from, you know, discussion, just the fact that, drawing parallels of what he describes to be just corporate greed across all of fucking video game development at the moment and kind of just championing and championing that kind of narrative and just sort of saying that publishers have a lot to answer for in the AAA category and, and just putting people's lives on the fucking line effectively because they can't manage projects properly and they're just willing to take a quick buck over just making stability. Adrian (1:09:02) Yeah. Cappo (1:09:17) and going from there. And reading what he was saying, I was just like, man, yeah. Adrian (1:09:17) Oh, yeah. And then yeah, and then making art instead of a cash grab. 100% is your job to do it. So why don't you do a good job? Cappo (1:09:25) Yeah, but I mean, ultimate. Yeah, exactly. But I mean, they're trying to take the so the issue is like video games development and gaming in general, I think there's an inherent amount of creativity required, obviously, to create a product that people interface with and enjoy. And a lot of that comes from new experiences and new approaches to things that you haven't done before. Because I mean, us as human beings, we look for new experiences. Adrian (1:09:52) and taking risks. Cappo (1:09:54) Yeah, exactly. And that's how we I mean, you know, when was the last time you went holy fuck, that was an amazing movie, probably because it had some element in that movie that you'd never seen done before, or the story went in a direction. Exactly, you know, and so the more media that we're exposed to the more shit that we do, we have less of that. And so when you have a game like Baldur's Gate come out and just fucking basically create a CRPG, which Adrian (1:09:55) 100%. Yeah, some surprise. Cappo (1:10:21) Realistically, a good one hasn't been done in a very, very long time. Um, you know, I'll say that and probably bite my tongue has probably been some reasonable attempts, but let's just be honest, this, this game is a, is, is like a ocarina of time. Fucking level of fucking video game. Like this is crazy good. Um, you know, it's, it's just mental. Adrian (1:10:26) Yeah, you know you are. Like of that scale. Yeah. And I mean, also if you're gonna like name other good CRPGs that have been made, you'd be probably talking about like Divinity, you know? Like you'd be talking about Larian's other games. Yeah, I thought there was a couple of things, yeah, well the other bonus guys. So there was a couple of things in it that I thought were really cool and kind of showed the kind of difference in mindset between like Larian sort of developer slash studio. Cappo (1:10:47) Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Or the earlier boulders gates, you know? Yeah. Adrian (1:11:08) versus your EA publishers and Ubisoft and that. And it's like, I was watching it and they were talking about putting Speak with Animals into the game. And they were like, you know, Speak with the Dead. And they're like, okay, well, if we put this in the game, they're gonna have to be able to be able to talk to a lot of dead people. Like, we've gotta have, you know, writing. Cappo (1:11:28) take into consideration why that person's dead and how the character might have had some things something to do to that. Adrian (1:11:33) Yeah, and what they know, we're gonna have to, yeah, if we let people speak with animals, we're gonna have to let them speak to all the animals because otherwise why do it? And that kind of mindset like sort of speaks to the kind of game they were trying to make because they were trying to make an incredible game. They weren't trying to make a bunch of money, they wanted to make the best game that they possibly could make. And so they did things like that. They allow you to speak with the dead, you know, and they write dialogue and get voice acting for every single person you interact with. Cappo (1:11:41) Exactly. Yeah. Adrian (1:12:03) that's dead, maybe you killed them, maybe you didn't. And the other thing that I thought showed their kind of intent and the strength of their intent was that there was one item description I was reading and it was sort of saying, this weapon explodes when it hits somebody or whatever. And then it said, furthermore, your attacks with this weapon always have advantage. And any other game that was not in a D&D setting would probably have used the word additionally. But. because it's old school, you know, medieval, you know, high fantasy. Yeah, absolutely. You use the word furthermore, you know, to use the word additionally would have been crazy. And so that kind of attention to detail, it's like, um, yeah, it's, you know, it would be, it wouldn't make sense. Why would you do it? It's like, uh, you know, you've ever heard that, um, story or whatever about Van Halen when they were like a big band in the eighties, um, they had this part of their rider. Cappo (1:12:43) Yes, that's beyond us time. Yeah. No. Adrian (1:13:02) was that they, in every show backstage, they needed to have a bowl of M&Ms with all the brown M&Ms removed. You heard about that? Do you know the rest of the story? Cappo (1:13:08) Yeah. Yes. Yeah. I can't remember what there was like a reason behind it and it wasn't because they had them or some shit but yeah. Adrian (1:13:18) Yeah, so the reason everyone sort of thinks about it as like, you know, Rockstar excess kind of like doing what they're doing it because they can't because they're so big and so important. But it was actually done because the Van Halen stage show was like one of the biggest things, biggest stage shows that had happened. Like it was bigger than stage shows that had come before and they're doing it all over the place and all these different venues. And so the tour manager put that into the rider to know that if they went into the venue and they saw that there were brand M&Ms in the bowl, then they had to do like, they had to check everything. Because if they didn't read the conditions and requirements accurately enough to do that, a simple task, then it meant that there's other stuff that they wouldn't have done. So I thought it was like very clever, very interesting thing, you know? And I think it shows like, talking about sort of the bowlers guy, that little... Cappo (1:14:05) Yeah. Adrian (1:14:15) seemingly insignificant thing, using the word furthermore instead of additionally, is actually the reason why, or shows why the game is so good. Because even to those funny details, those tiny details, they got it right. And, you know. Cappo (1:14:30) Yeah. And there's just so many of those title details across the entire game though, right? Like, you know, I mean, I mean, you talk about AAA is not being able to execute on a project. Like, I don't think there's a company on the planet that could have created the story tree that Adrian (1:14:34) That's it. Yeah, they just hit it every time, all the time. Cappo (1:14:51) is Baldur's Gate 3 in terms of every single micro decision that you make in that game, whether it be story or player interaction that somehow has some effect on the story and what that interaction means for resulting, you know, events beyond that and how those events interact with one another. You got to think about from a top level and how that branches downwards. That game is Adrian (1:15:11) Yeah. Cappo (1:15:17) a literal masterpiece of humankind. Like, actually being able to, as a team of human beings, create that game is actually fucking incredible. Adrian (1:15:18) It, yeah. Yeah, just to have the cognitive capacity to visualize that or to create even a system that allows you to visualize it. Yeah, it seems crazy. It's like. Cappo (1:15:33) How do you project manage that? How do you project manage that and have everyone on the same page? Adrian (1:15:41) Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I couldn't do it. I absolutely definitely could not do it. I know that much. But it's sort of similar, you know, disco Elysium, like that kind of branching narrative. Yeah, I mean, I very, very much doubt we'll get a game of that reactivity again, unless sort of Larian make another one. Because it's something that you don't really see. I mean, disco Elysium did it on a much smaller scale. But Cappo (1:15:46) I don't think it's possible. I think this is a fucking... Yeah. Yeah. Adrian (1:16:09) I think even sort of beyond that, like you have those branching sort of narratives and like, you know, branching paths and stuff. The other thing is that they actually also matter, but most of it, you know, like, it's not sort of like, you know, seeing a different thing. It's like, the characters are written so well that you become invested in the story. And so having those branching paths, actually, it's important now, not just for like novelty or replayability, but it's important because it's your story. Same thing with Disco Elysium. I've only played that game once, but I played it again and I was like, ah, it's not the same. Cause the story was so good, but the way that I went through it, that's how it happened. You know? And I think Baldur's Gate is cause there's a bit more sort of customization and, uh, yeah, like, you know, you, many different classes, you can play a different class configurations, different character configurations. It makes sense that you play that game again, but, um, it's yeah, it's like, it's, it's just a triumph. It's just such an incredible game. I had such a good time playing it. did some insane stuff like I don't want to sort of talk about it because I don't want to spoil it for anybody but like I just remember like several times in our playthrough just being aghast at what was happening and just going like how could this be real you know how could they put this option into the game you know Cappo (1:17:24) Yeah. Look, I kind of had this conversation with Grizz recently, and there's a couple of like, I think they actually managed to have some moments in that game, which were truly like, like surprising in terms of narrative developments. And I guess, do you know what, like, fuck it. Like if you look, Ultimately, sorry, there's gonna be some maybe some spoilers in this part of the show. So if you're not interested in BG three spoilers, maybe just, you know, hang out for 10 minutes and come back. But I think, you know, when you find out the identity and I won't say it immediately unless you Are happy for me to continue Adrian, but when you find out the identity, for example, of the Emperor. Adrian (1:18:09) Oh, um... Yeah, yeah, that was like... Cappo (1:18:13) And you find out that he's fucking Boulder and you're just like, are you fucking joking me? The Boulder? What the f- Dude, that was insane, you know? And then further down the track, you find out that fucking Withers is the fucking, what is his name? Jurgle or whatever fucking name is the original God of Death. Adrian (1:18:21) Yeah, dude. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude. It's just like, this we had massive reveals. And that's like, after so many other massive reveals, you know, to sort of craft a narrative that like, allows you to do that to Cappo (1:18:43) Yeah. Adrian (1:18:53) Yeah, to experience that stuff and not have them guess those twists are coming because you're too busy focused on this... Yeah, all the stuff that's happening already, you know? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, you just overloaded, right? You just can't think about it. I feel like they do that pretty well in Star Wars in Jedi Survivor. You know, because there's a big... there's a twist in that game. And yeah, they just obfuscated it so well. Cappo (1:18:59) trying to piece everything else together. You know? Yeah. There's so much shit in your periphery. Yeah. Adrian (1:19:23) I was really quite impressed. Cappo (1:19:26) What was the twist? I don't know if I'll ever get around to playing that game, unfortunately. What was the big fucking... Adrian (1:19:31) Okay. Well, yeah, so the thing is, is that you start off and you're, you know, whatever, whatever your name is. And this, yeah, Cal, Cal Kestis, and you get this mercenary dude called Boad who joins your team. And, you know, and so from the very beginning, you're like, Oh, yeah, I mean, this guy's got a kid that he's trying to get take care of. And he's definitely going to betray us. You know, he's gonna betray us for sure. And so Cappo (1:19:39) cowl or whatever. Ah, yes. Yeah. Yeah, I got that vibe. Adrian (1:20:01) You know, you go through and then obviously that moment comes and he betrays you and you're like, yeah, okay. You know, cool. I saw it coming, whatever. Um, yeah, it was, it was extremely obvious. And then you play a little bit more and you're like, he's trying to do the same thing you're trying to do. So you end up sort of fighting him again. And, you know, you go and like, you're, um, yeah, you're fighting him. Uh, he's using his blasters. You're like deflecting the balls and stuff. And you go to like. Cappo (1:20:08) You saw this coming. Yeah, okay, thanks. Adrian (1:20:30) do the killing blow and he just force pushes you away. And the thing that they've been hiding the whole time is that he's a Jedi as well. And he's working for the empire to hide like within there, to keep his daughter safe. And from that moment you're like, holy shit, like I did not see that coming at all because they just, you know, they showed me this, like slight of hand stuff, you know, this was doing the stuff, but the thing is like, yeah, obviously gonna betray me, you know, I'm pretty savvy consumer. Cappo (1:20:38) Oh shit! Wild. Day of Air Wild! Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I know these things. Yeah. That's a good fucking twist. Adrian (1:21:00) media and then yeah when it happened I was like fuck that is cool that was very well done and then it just fucking yeah it was sick man um and then it just like adds an extra bit of like gravity to your fight right because now it's not just you versus some rando mercenary it's like no there's like more there's more yeah there's more implications to this you know because you've got the light side dark side kind of thing starts coming in yeah it's good man it's really good um Cappo (1:21:09) Yeah. You're versing in fuck another Jedi. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. Fuck. So many good stories. I fucking love it. But unfortunately, Adrian, we're not going to be getting any more good stories in the Baldur's Gate three slash Wizards of the Forgotten Coast, or whoever the fuck it is, realm from Larian moving forward as well. Swen Vink has noted that they're moving away entirely from Adrian (1:21:40) Oh yeah. Cappo (1:21:51) from the Forgotten Realms IP and Baldur's Gate in general. It sounds like the them, well, the Forgotten Realms tried to get them to continue utilizing the IP. I dare say, I think Swen was quite diplomatic about it and has been on Twitter and stuff saying, no, us releasing the IP and getting out of there is kind of a good move for Larry. And they've, Forgotten Realms have been good player, good kind of good dudes and you know, Hasbro have been good as well. But I reckon that's just kind of being Mr. Nice Guy, I am positive that there's probably some degree of expectation behind what was next for that IP and what they did next with it. And maybe Larry and weren't 100% happy with what that would have looked like. But regardless, they're not going to be making another game in that universe. Next. if at all ever again. Probably going back to Divinity or maybe a new IP, we don't know yet, but they are working on something. Adrian (1:22:58) Yeah, I mean, personally, I'm like, oh, that's good. Baldur's Gate 3 exists, you can play it. They get to do something new and fresh on their own terms with all the reputation they've now built off making one of the best CRPGs ever made. And we get to see what kind of weird stuff they're gonna cook up, you know? Because I think for me, like, the... Cappo (1:23:01) Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Adrian (1:23:25) cool thing about Baldur's Gate 3 was not the fact that it was like set in a faer ruin or whatever in the D&D universe in much the same way as when I'm actually playing real D&D, I'm not really, although tabletop D&D sorry, I'm not really that concerned about where we are, you know, and what it is. It's like, oh, I really want to do is have good combat and good character moments. It could be in any setting at all. Cappo (1:23:44) where it is or what it is. Adrian (1:23:54) And that's, you know, I mean, that's what you get. That's what really drew me to maybe to a Bowler's Gate three. It's like those really good combat and really good character moments and a really good narrative. You know, and they can do that in any IP they want really. Um, because the themes of it and the bare bones of it are pretty much the same. You know, just very hard to do. That's why most people, most games don't have a good story. Cappo (1:24:03) Yeah. 100%. Yeah, of course, but I mean if anyone can do it, it's probably Larian, right? Adrian (1:24:22) Yeah, I mean, they just, yeah, they did it. They did it already, you know? Yeah, I remember like, I've done it before. We'll probably just keep, just probably do another one. Yeah, I was, dude, I've never planned, I was, you know, cause I ended up in my multiplayer game, I ended up hooking up with Laizel, you know? So obviously she was the fourth member of our team from that moment on. It was hectic, man. Oh boy. But there was this point, right, where we were sitting on the roof in the folder's gate, we're looking out and she's like, Cappo (1:24:25) They've done it before. I just think they're going to keep doing it. Yeah. Fuck it. Damn boy. Yeah. Adrian (1:24:52) talking to me really earnestly. Like she finally like let down the walls that she had like all the way through the game. And then there was this dialogue option that I could say back to her was like, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. What a joke. And just the idea that you could go all the way, go through all this stuff and then just like, yeah, that you could do it. And I didn't, I couldn't do it. I could not say that to her. Cappo (1:25:12) that existed. Yeah. No, no, no. Yeah. Adrian (1:25:21) you know, because we've been through too much. And I know she's my wife. But just the fact that they put it there, like, you know, I didn't click, I couldn't. I want to say, but I don't know, man. I don't want to know. You know, I don't want to know. Yeah. Dude. And you know, I was obviously getting a fair bit of pressure. Yeah. Yeah, I was gonna be getting pressure from the boys to be like, do it, man. It'd be so funny. I'm like, dude, that's offensive to me. How dare you? Cappo (1:25:28) Yeah. Yeah, just the fact it existed was crazy. Yeah. I mean, I went full shadow heart. So. Yeah. You're gonna talk about my wife like that? What the fuck? Yeah. Disgusted, you would even ask. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Well. Adrian (1:25:53) Yeah, you talk about, you know, love my life. Unbelievable. I turn on PVP mode. Yeah. So I mean, that's good writing. You know, that's, I think that's good writing. Cappo (1:26:08) Adrian, can you see, I mean, obviously, you know, Larian really going to be doing an awful lot with the IP anymore, but fuck what do what do wizards do next? What do you think they do with the IP? Adrian (1:26:22) Just make D&D that you can play on the internet with your friends. Just make an engine that allows your dungeon master to drag and drop things and build encounters without having to spend a million dollars on minifigs. You know, like they've got World 20 and people use World 20 constantly, even though at least I find it to be insanely janky. Just make that. Cappo (1:26:27) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah, make a good version of it. You know, make us make a sick marketplace. Adrian (1:26:50) Just make that, put it on the internet for people to use. Yeah, you can just sell minifigs that don't exist. Yep, make a sick marketplace, take a cut, get all these, yeah, get these people a 3D model there. You know, you've got your basic, you know, you'd probably get your in-house artists or whatever to do all the proper stuff. Sell minifig packs online that don't physically exist but cost a little bit less or the same. It just seems like a no-brainer. It just seems like such an easy way to lower your overheads and increase the amount of people that are playing your game. Cappo (1:27:16) Yep. Yeah. And you know, if, yeah. And you know, if they create that Adrian, they are not going to be charging less for those digital versions. So they're going to be charged the exact same amount, which is just ludicrous. You know, they already do that with the fucking player handbook. Adrian (1:27:30) Oh, it's like, yeah, there's no chance. Yeah, my friend, um... Oh dude, yeah, it's like you're not being able to convert your physical copy to also get your digital copy. Just sort of like, well, I guess I'll just never use the digital thing ever because I'm in the physical strength, you know? So yeah, my friend was playing a game with his mate over in Melbourne, over VR, and it's basically like that. Just Dungeons and Dragons, like a top-down... I can't remember what it's called, bless me. But yeah, Demi-Ox, that's the one, yeah. Cappo (1:27:48) No, what happened? Oh, yes, sick. Not Demios or something? Yeah. Adrian (1:28:08) I've played a bit of that and it was cool. And it's like, well, why don't they just do this with D&D? You know, it seems like, yeah. It's like, I don't know, it's like, I'm trying to think of an analogy, but it's like getting Respawn to make a first person shooter in which you're a Mandalorian bounty hunter. You know, it's like that. Just. Cappo (1:28:14) They're brighter. Yep. Yeah, well, I mean, if that's the metaphor that we know the answer is that it's obviously going to cost too much money. That's the answer. Yeah, exactly. Well, all right, here's my guess at what they do with the IP. They create a six v six hero shooter in the style of Overwatch and it is out of fucking garbage. Adrian (1:28:34) Yeah, yeah, that's it. Why do we do that? We can keep doing what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah, but it's too inviced with D&D. Actually, yeah. Yeah, there'll be some of that sucks because the thing is, it's not the IP that matters. It's the people that make the gap. Yeah, it'll suck. You heard it here first. Cappo (1:28:54) Yeah. Probably. Who knows? We'll find out. Yeah. It's going to be shit. Yeah. And you know that 10 cent is going to fucking get in there as well. Adrian (1:29:11) You get to totally plan on your mobile, clicking on ads. Cappo (1:29:13) Yeah, it's coming. It's fucking coming. All right. Mate, yeah, it's not going to be good now, but speaking about things that actually are good and something that you're fucking, you've been fucking thoroughly enjoying as far as I'm aware, bit of hell diving, bit of getting in there. Adrian (1:29:16) the whole facility, you call guy, toothpaste. What do we got now? Oh yeah, I've been diving a lot. I think it's a great game. I think it is excellent. Um, it's, yeah, sorry. Cappo (1:29:34) Yeah, you been getting in? Yeah. Now, give me give me your like what is it, Adrian, that you think sets? I mean, because, you know, we kind of spoken a bit about Helldivers on this podcast last time. And I mean, it's obviously really, I mean, I think it's very much exceeded expectations. I mean, it's sold like well, a truly over 8 million copies or something ridiculous. It's like one of the USA's best selling games of the year. Adrian (1:29:58) So, massively. Yeah. Cappo (1:30:07) you know, it's just fucking cracking it. And, you know, for, you know, for the most part, like the Helldivers IP is fairly unknown. The first game I think was reasonably went reasonably well, but it was a top down shooter that not an awful lot of people knew about. You might have just kind of ran into it with a bunch of mates and kind of went, oh, let's give this one a crack and maybe played it for a weekend and left it there. But this game has gone fucking great guns. So why? Why, Adrian? What is it about this fucking game? Adrian (1:30:36) I think first and foremost it's really fun to play. The gameplay itself, the gameplay loop, is really good. It feels good to shoot things with the weapons that you get. But... Cappo (1:30:49) Yeah. It's like the Destiny effect. Adrian (1:30:53) Yeah, yeah, very much so. But there's also like, so many things that they do, that's like the best or one of the better ways to do it all, like a really good example of that being done. So it's like the world building that they do, I think is excellent. You know, you're obviously a helldiver fighting for super earth, which is the pretty, you know, it's got this really sort of thin, very thinly veiled. Starship Troopers reference that permeates the whole thing. But they've also got that same sort of satire that exists in the first Starship Troopers of this like sort of dystopian world that seems like paradise. You know, these like real powerful themes of patriotism and government misinformation. And all of this is just like done with a straight face. But the satire is obvious. Just like using the satire is obvious, you know? Especially nowadays. It was a bit different when Star Trek Troopers first came out. But you know, like, and everybody gets in on it. Like, you get tweets from the developer of the game. And he's tweeted, you know, this is previous to one of the recent events. He's like, I've heard rumors of flying bugs in Helldivers 2. I want to officially refute such preposterous claims. Everybody knows that bugs can't fly. Cappo (1:32:20) Thanks for watching! Adrian (1:32:22) And I'm not alone in thinking this. The Ministry of Truth agrees that this is propaganda from bug sympathizers that want to brainwash good people. Hashtag lies. You know, and that is, that's a lot of fun, you know, cause that's the developer. Cappo (1:32:31) Ministry of truth. Yeah. Adrian (1:32:39) I'll try to find, uh, Oh dude, yeah, 100%. Yeah. It's, um, just this, uh, you know, blatant misinformation. Um, and there's, but then he posted this other, you know, obviously bugs can fly, um, because a bunch of bugs can fly now and they just, you know, they're hard to kill. And his thing is like, yeah, he's like, then he posted his tweet and it's like, I've always believed in the possibility of. Cappo (1:32:40) It's a bit of a Trumpism really, isn't it? Like it kind of has that same kind of vibe. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Confirmed. Adrian (1:33:09) flying bugs, you know? But there is no chance that these flying bugs created some sort of mutation from our release of from our deployment of the Terminator Control System, you know, which is this like, you had to, for part of the game, you know, for a period, you had to go do this mission where you had to like power these silos that dispute poisonous gas into the air to poison all the Terminids. And so obviously as this is happening, you're like, this is, you know, obviously the bug's gonna mutate. Cappo (1:33:11) D-D- Yep. Adrian (1:33:39) And he's like, you know, we just know, we know that bugs evolve very quickly. So, I mean, I shudder to, I shudder to think what might've happened had we not deployed the terminal control system, you know, and it's just got that like. Perfect tone of this, like, yeah, government misinformation and, uh, mistruths and revisionism that exists in these kinds of, uh, dystopias of which the United States, uh, seems to be going down that path in my opinion, but I'll stay away from that. Um. Cappo (1:33:44) Hahaha Yeah, definitely not related. Yeah. Yep. Hahaha Adrian (1:34:09) The other stuff is the battle passes are done in a really cool way. We were talking about market transactions earlier. Um, with held up as two, you get one free battle pass at the beginning. Everybody gets it. And then you can buy a new battle passes for like 15 AUD. So like four us dollars, something like that. And, um, you end up, but the thing is that the battle passes never go away. They stay there forever. you buy them and they're yours. If you don't buy them, they're still there. You buy them when you want, you know? Which is like, the closest thing I compare it to is Destiny, where it's like, you've got, you know, 12 weeks or something like that, maybe, or less, per season. And if you don't play that season, then you miss out on those weapons. And they're weapons that you can't earn any other way. Yeah, it's crazy bad, because it's like, I used to play a fair bit of Destiny too. I still play a little bit with my mate. But... Cappo (1:34:37) Yep. Which sucks? Adrian (1:35:06) you sort of jump into it halfway through or towards the end and you're like, well, I just missed out on a ton of these weapons. So, you know, if you have any sort of like completionist tendencies or anything, um, Cappo (1:35:15) Yeah, or just the anxiety of like, you know, that FOMO, you know, which is shit. It's a terrible way to entice people. Adrian (1:35:19) Yeah, being forced to play. Yeah, it's just a shitty thing to do to exploit people's fears. Cappo (1:35:30) I don't know about you as well, but that puts me off video games. And I wonder how many people feel the same way and whether developers realize that that's like a, like a, like a not very, like it's abrasive. Adrian (1:35:34) I understand. Yeah, yeah, well, I don't know, we're seeing it right now, because it's one of the reasons why Helldivers is such a big fucking deal that everybody's having fun with. Because it respects your time and understands that you have other stuff to do. And doesn't like that it doesn't have to fall. It's like we're talking about Dragon's Dogma. We're saying Derek, it doesn't have to force you to play the game, because you want to play it, because the game is good. You know, Dragon's Dogma 2 doesn't fall, you can't fast travel, but that's not a problem, because traveling around by yourself is fun. Like, and that's the core of the game, right? The game is fun to play. But with each of these things that they do, they just sort of make these decisions that seem like it would be suicidal for a company to do it. But in actual fact, it turns out that it's probably the best way. The other thing that they do that I think is really good, they don't have a roadmap. They don't have, I mean, they had one, but then the game was so wildly successful that they had to redo it. So they took their roadmap down, they're like, we'll post another roadmap. figured it out but they haven't posted anything and honestly I think that's preferable because when something comes out it's a surprise like one of the major orders was to go liberate this automaton planet because they were building these uh new mechs and the community banded together and fought the bots for ages and eventually liberated this planet before it was up and then everybody got the new mech strategy where you can drop down an actual mech, get into it and shoot things. And for a while, every time you dropped in Helldivers, you had access to that mech, before it was sort of relegated to your stratagems where you had to purchase it with requisition tickets. And they just keep doing that. The flying enemies were just dropped in, like I was playing the game and then one mission I dropped and they were just flying bugs now. And it gives you this feeling of like, you're just a soldier. in this world, this conflict that's engineered by the elite in order for them to make money. And you don't have much information because it doesn't matter if you have information or not, because they don't care about you. They tell you that this stuff is important and that you're doing your best protecting people's lives, but in actual fact you're just like making money for other people. And so like all of these things link together in this perfect way like the tone of the game and the satire of this like sort of autocratic society that calls itself democratic and that ties in with the way that you have no information really like about when things are going to happen which ties into why I think it's good they don't have a roadmap. The guns you get, the information you get on them is pretty bare bones which is I think is good because it just means that in order to figure out you like a gun or not go and shoot a bunch of bugs with it. Cappo (1:38:34) Yeah, see how it feels. Adrian (1:38:34) And if you think it's effective, then keep shooting bugs. You know, like I feel like there's this, there's this sort of, although there's a tendency to give players as much information as possible, but I don't think that that's a good idea because notoriously people are very bad at making decisions that are in their best interest. So the more information we get doesn't necessarily mean that we're making a better decision. It's more important that we get in there and just have it like feel it out. And the other thing that would only work Cappo (1:38:51) Yeah. Adrian (1:39:04) if the guns that you get are all pretty well balanced and for the most part they are there was a been a couple of nerfs so far and a couple of buffs but I feel at least myself that um all the guns pretty balanced they all do different things and they you know change depending on they're more valuable less valuable depending on what planet you're on and what enemy you're fighting and also what everybody else in your squad has so it kind of gives you this flexibility to you know, how you think is the best way to play it without really having a sort of meta that you kind of have to do. And I think the reason that works is because it's a PvE game. There's no PvP, you kill each other and oftentimes that happens, but it's like fun instead of extremely stress-inducing. And because it's a PvE game, you can really have these kind of things happen that you couldn't if there was any kind of PvP. I feel Destiny 2 was kind of ruined by PvP because almost nobody plays it but it exists in there now and so PvE decisions are made based on PvP, same thing happened with World of Warcraft, you know? PvE gameplay was affected by PvP existing. Yeah, no, I think it's excellent. I think this, yeah, this is just really well done and I think it shows, you know, shows people that this kind of games as a service can be done correctly. Cappo (1:40:12) Yep. 100%. Adrian (1:40:31) I think it involves a little bit of like. Cappo (1:40:31) Yeah. Adrian (1:40:36) sort of what school I'm looking for. Just like a bit of generosity, I think, and a bit of respect for people's time. Cappo (1:40:41) Yeah, and even respect for their brains, you know, like, I feel like, I feel like developers just treat people like fucking idiots sometimes with the way that they tutorialize things and but it's almost like tutorialization for tutorialization sake and but I do find that, you know, and again, talking about Dragon's Dogma, like there's a lot of things that are just kind of not really discussed and you just kind of figure out and I think, you know, Helldivers has a similar thing. You know? Adrian (1:40:45) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and that's fun, like big time. There's heaps of stuff, like these little things that pop up, like one of the secondary objectives, you can, you know, take, you know, you take over the artillery, the SAF, SAF artillery, right, you know, you load the shells in, and then you connect it to your super destroyer. Now you have like another strategy you can call in, but the way the shells come out is the exact same water that you loaded them in. So if you make a choice to load it with like, Cappo (1:41:32) Mm-hmm. Adrian (1:41:35) smoke and you really need that thing to die, well you'll probably just fire the smoke at it. You know, it doesn't tell you that, it doesn't tell you what's coming up next, it's just like that's the way they went in, that's the way they come out. So you actually have to make like a little mini choice when you're doing that, you know, what are we going to need? Because they give you more shells than you can fit into the artillery. So you kind of make a little decision there, what do we need coming up, you know, and also what order they're going in. Cappo (1:42:01) Yes. Adrian (1:42:02) which I think is very cool. And that's that idea of like, they're not giving you all the information. It's like a design choice, rather than lack of effort or a lack of understanding. Cappo (1:42:13) Yeah, or just like oversimplification of systems as well, you know, like, you know, to the point where it like the inferral of like, what you should do is just completely obvious to and it's not fun, like, because it's like, well, I've done this again. I've done this in many games. Like, why am I doing like, why should I be bothered right now? Yeah. Adrian (1:42:16) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I keep doing the same thing. And that's why I find like the game is still really fresh even though I've played, I've probably played about a hundred hours, I reckon. It's still really fresh. And I still find myself like, if I'm playing some Helldivers and then I've got to do something else, I'll just, you know, stop playing. I won't, I don't have that desire to like go, oh no, I've just got to finish this mission so I can get, you know, these sample. Cappo (1:42:53) Yeah. Adrian (1:43:00) these samples or I need these medals. It's like, I just sort of feel like I'll just get the medals the next time I play the game. I already had a good time. So that's fine. Which I think is like only works because the game itself is so fun. Um, whereas like, you know, you're playing a dungeon in destiny or whatever and you have to leave. It kind of sucks, but you know, that's a bad feeling because it means the only reason you're doing this is because you want some shiny Giegel, which is like, Cappo (1:43:13) Yeah. Adrian (1:43:28) opposite of what you should want to do when you're playing a game. You should want to play the game. I think like I've struck a really good balance with it. Cappo (1:43:33) Yeah, I think that's a, that's a really good point. Yeah. Is, and it comes back to that whole idea of like, is the game loop itself fun, or are you just chasing the final reward all the time? And exactly. And if, if the dopamine is only coming from, you know, two seconds of opening a chest, like fuck, you you're wasting your time, right? Like Adrian (1:43:42) Yeah, that's it, that dope and main burst, you know? Yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, you just you didn't make a game you made a skinner box. Whereas, you know, when I play Helldivers, I get dopamine every time I kill a bug, or blow up something, or dive away from an explosion and spend a cool way, you know, the game is just full of these cool things that you do constantly. Yeah, it's really fun. It's really good. Cappo (1:43:59) Exactly. Yeah. moments. Yeah. Yeah, me and Grisk played it a little bit, probably the second week or so after release and we haven't dived back in since just because I think like at the time, we probably need to give it more time to really coalesce and I think also, you know, our schedules just are not conducive to an awful lot of multiplayer gaming. So Adrian (1:44:24) Yeah. Yeah. Cappo (1:44:41) looking at what it's kind of providing. And I think the way it is utilizing its community to really sort of self feedback loop its own momentum, which I think is a really important part of a game as a service, by the way, I think it's probably one of the most integral parts realistically, because, you know, the only way to make a successful game is services by having a good community. And how do you have a good community if they're a part of the actual fucking game, which a lot of games these days aren't. Adrian (1:45:09) Yeah. Cappo (1:45:11) you know, the developers just take them whatever direction they feel like, and then just hope for the best or just completely ignore their player base. But it seems that these guys are doing some really, really fucking cool shit. And it's great. Adrian (1:45:22) Yeah, that's an interesting point. Like I just thought about Dan. In Helldivers 2, anytime anything happens is because you dive onto a planet and kill a bunch of stuff and blow a bunch of stuff up. Whereas like in Destiny 2, there's all these other characters around and then you do something rad. But because you're technically one of many, even though you're a unique character, you can't really do anything. All the stuff is done by other characters. and other NPCs, but who is an Helldiver, you're essentially an NPC because you're this faceless like clone or frozen like cryogenically frozen soldier. Every time you get launched in like in canon or whatever, C-A-N-L-N, you're a different person because the default voice setting is randomized. So the idea is not that you're coming back again and again, you're just another one just landing on the ground, dying instantly to a bug or Cappo (1:46:18) Coming back. Yeah. Adrian (1:46:20) being blown up by a rocket or being knocked from the rocket onto another rocket, which knocks you to a third rocket, killing you, you know? So I think like, it's not, like almost the success of that game or the success of you as a player is actually the success of the community, because no matter what you do, the way the whole game is designed and built, you are a faceless brunt, just like the other three guys. And so, with that idea, it only works if you're- Cappo (1:46:42) Yeah. Adrian (1:46:48) because there's actually nothing to distinguish you as a fly. Yeah, it's very cool. Cappo (1:46:50) Exactly. But even going back to that destiny to metaphor that you were talking about earlier is the approach that bungees had to raids has always been like once the world first raid is completed by a team of six people who their entire life is all dedicated towards playing video games, you know, which is quite a significant deviation from what the majority of the rest of the community is probably people who work full time and people who just play the game for fun. Adrian (1:47:18) Yeah. Cappo (1:47:20) Once those six people who have the privilege of being able to do that as a full time job or whatever else, complete the raid first on your behalf, that's when you get the cool, you know, the video or whatever else it is that is like, you know, the, the law tidbit post, post raid. And I think that's like, it's not a very, it's not a great community vibe because it's like, oh, cool, you know, six guys that, you know, are really good at video games have just completed the ride. Congratulations guys. Like, you know, whereas with Helldivers, it's like, Oh, everyone came together, everyone killed a shitload of automatons and we've now got this sick new Mac wicked. Adrian (1:47:52) Oh, all right. Yeah, something new, we got some weapons, you know, we got, yeah, it's really cool. It's just really clever way of making a game by like integrating the actual gameplay into the narrative in this way that is seamless, you know? I mean, I've still got some problems with the crossplay. It's just absolutely jank, man. It just does not work. I can't really play with any of my friends on PC because it just crashes, you know? Cappo (1:48:30) So who's a crash for, you or them? Adrian (1:48:31) which is, it's annoying because I, it depends who's hosting. So if it's like PC players hosting all the, I think I'm probably the only PS5 player that played with my friends because they all have computers. But for the most part, it's like, it's really, it's like impossible to get it, like string a few missions together without crashing out. And then, you know, you come back in and you can't join the squad because you're technically still in the squad. Cappo (1:48:44) Yep. Adrian (1:49:00) So you gotta wait until the server realizes that and then you can jump back in so you can crash again. It's like, it's a living nightmare. But because I really wanna play Helldivers with no friends, you know, because the game's great and it gets even better when you're playing in like a coordinated squad, yeah. But that's my, I mean, it's a big concern, but I've still played a shitload of Helldivers. So it's not, the game is so good that I'm willing to tolerate this in order to shoot more bugs and or bots. Cappo (1:49:03) God. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the idea, right? Yep. Adrian (1:49:31) with a variety of different weapons. Cappo (1:49:34) Yeah, fuck you, man. I love it. I'm gonna get back into it, Adrian. I'm gonna fucking... I'm gonna do it. I just need to... I need to play... I need to finish Dragon's Dogma 2. I then need to also finish Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. I need to sell my soul to B'Lantro because that game... And I'm not gonna get enough time to talk about it this episode, but holy fuck, that game is a... It is probably... my favorite roguelike of all time, I actually think. Adrian (1:49:38) Yeah, jump in bro. Cappo (1:50:02) I actually don't think there's anything better than it. And that's fucking I know it's a big call to make, but it is. It is one of it is I know I know and I love slave this by don't get me wrong, but it's just it's a completely different itch and the way that it utilizes fucking just poker and on the surface seems so fucking simple and boring. But when you get in there, oh, my God, that game. Adrian (1:50:07) Yeah right, that's a big call. Slow the spire exists. Yeah. Cappo (1:50:29) is a fucking masterpiece and it's yeah I don't know what else to say about it but yeah unfortunately we don't have time for this week but we got to dive into um into the old rapid fire but yeah god damn it's um I'll get back into helldivers don't you worry and I'll fucking hit you up hopefully they will fix a fucking what do you call it cross play by then Adrian (1:50:31) Hahaha. Yeah, they're working on it. They reckon it's quite a problem for them. They're trying to solve. I think that they were honestly completely blindsided by the sales. I think they expected 50,000 people to play it and they had servers that had capacity of 250,000. That's like, this is absolute best case scenario. People play on a game with probably about 250,000 and it was like a million or something like that, like straight out of the gate. So... Cappo (1:50:52) Yeah. That'll do it. Yeah. I mean, the architecture and infrastructure they need is completely, completely different to what they have planned for, like, which would be immensely difficult to correct. Adrian (1:51:18) You know, I think... Oh, 100%. And it's like, it's that thing. It's I remember, you know, with Valheim when it came out, it was like this massive smash hit and then there wasn't much content coming out and they're like, you've got all this money, just make all this content. And it's like, well, you still got to hire people. You still got to onboard them. You still got to, you know, organize them. You still got to manage this project. That's now gone from seven people to 30 people, 50 people. You got to test it. You got to QA it. It's like. Cappo (1:51:42) Yeah. Crit. Test, QA. Adrian (1:51:53) You know, it just doesn't, you know, money's not like fuel that you just doesn't convert instantly into production. You know, it's still a bunch of stuff that real human beings with lives, families, you know, certain biological necessities to sleep and food, sunlight, you know, they've got to have those as well. So I'm happy to wait. I wish it wasn't the case because this game is so fun. Cappo (1:52:03) Yeah. Yeah, humanity is just full of impatience, unfortunately. Adrian (1:52:23) Yeah, I just gotta do it. It's not what I was gonna do. You know, what am I gonna not play Helldivers? Unacceptable to me. Cappo (1:52:28) No, it's not gonna happen. You're not gonna do that. And yeah, look, I will join you. I will join you. It's gonna happen. Adrian (1:52:32) No, I'm not. I want. It's good. I look forward to it. Cappo (1:52:38) All right, well, mate, let's fucking look at we have fucking prattled on about some fucking things that I got us been fucking great. But we need to dive into the final part of this show. The old rapper fire news Adrian (1:52:45) True. Cappo (1:52:56) It's in the freaking game, Adrian. I'm gonna belt through all these and we might stop for a couple of cheeky roadside chats about a couple of days as we go. But firstly, mate, insanely radical. All of the Super Mario Maker 1 player-made levels have been completed by maniacs, literal fucking maniacs, just before the servers were shut off. So yeah, essentially Nintendo was shutting down, I guess, the servers for this and someone, oh, a couple of people. said, we're gonna play every single play in a level that exists and complete them all before that happens. And they did, which, yeah, hearkens back to the old, you know, people. It is it's literally crazy. So fucking well done to him. Adrian (1:53:35) Yeah, that's actually insane. thing is like not only is like they're a bunch of levels but those levels are made with malicious intent you know like Cappo (1:53:50) Yes. Yeah. And some of them are just insane. Like literal, like masochist level shit in terms of difficulty spike is just insane. Adrian (1:53:59) I remember, yeah, I remember watching Grizzler do him. And I was just like, fucking hell, man. Like, I couldn't believe he was doing him, you know? Kudos to Grizzler for having those kind of platforming chops because that made me feel sick with fear. Cappo (1:54:08) Yeah. Just just yeah. Maybe it makes you worry for him, you know, his mental fortitude. Yeah, and you personally. All right, moving along. It seems Adrian that the all adult swing games are going to be removed from storefronts by Adrian (1:54:19) Yeah, yeah, that's it. I worry for Grizzly. I worry for the person who made this level, you know. Yeah, just... Cappo (1:54:36) may of 2024 confirmed by developers. So that's a bunch of different games. One of them off the top of my head was duck game, which you may or may not remember platforming kind of game, just, just a real fucking cracker. But yeah, just seems like there's a bunch of games gonna be dropped off. So it won't mean that you won't have access to them if you already own them, but you just won't be able to buy them anymore. So there's also a My I say this is another fucking incredible, incredibly good rogue like game Kingsway. Um, check that one out. It's kind of this game. Oh God, it's, it's like a, um, trying to think of the, like the whole idea is it's like a old school RPG kind of like, um, you know, low UI kind of deal, but all of the shit that happens in that game is like. Windows 98 pop ups that happens on your desktop computer. And so like, you'll be traveling around and you'll be trying to manage your inventory and then a goblin attacks you and it pops up over the top of the inventory management, you're trying to sort that goblin out in this side window and then you're trying to do other shit and then other window and it's a really, really fucking good game. And if there's anything I can recommend that people buy before this goes offline is that game. It is a cracker. Adrian (1:55:51) I'm going to go to bed. Cappo (1:56:03) really good. So get that one in you. All right. Now, speaking of 6v6, you know, shooting games, you know, harkening back to the potential for a Baldur's Gate 3, 6v6, you know, shooter, Overwatch will finally stop locking new heroes behind battle passes in season 10, which I think is probably a good indication of how that game's going. Not very well. Adrian (1:56:04) Yes, that's good. Yeah, yeah, they're willing to willingly giving up money there mustn't be that much money Cappo (1:56:36) Yeah. I don't know if you've opened up that link there, Adrian, but when you look at the polygon article inside it, and you see the like developer update, and it's just like this, you know, probably the lead developer as the ad is smiling as if he's got a fucking gun behind him in his back like it's just like, fuck it up. Just blink twice, my friend. Adrian (1:56:54) Yeah. Dude, yeah, someone's, yeah, someone's putting a gun on that guy. For sure. Or it's like children are just out of frame, you know, something like that. Cappo (1:57:04) Are you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talmud's gonna be okay. Alright, John? Talmud's gonna be okay. But yeah, so look, yeah, it's not good. Now continuing on from that story, a possible reaction to Blizzard reportedly cancelling all of its PvE offerings in relation to Overwatch, which has been apparently cancelled Adrian (1:57:14) Oh boy close that Cappo (1:57:33) poor sales, which I mean, fuck understatement. I mean, people just don't like the game because you fucked it basically. So, you know, you've done the same to Diablo now as well. It's just it's a consistent fucking bad fucking juju man, you know, it's not good. Adrian (1:57:39) It's just, yeah, it's not fun to play. Yeah. At some point you've got to start making good games instead of bad ones. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don't know. All those two did need to exist. Why does it exist? Cappo (1:57:50) Yeah, Malay how the, how'd I fall in? No, really didn't, really didn't. Um, all right, moving along. Adrian (1:57:58) But I mean, that's just the, yeah, that's all. That's the lie of it. Cappo (1:58:01) Well, exactly. NetEase are going to try their hand at the Overwatch formula, my friend. 6v6 Overwatch style shooter in the Marvel universe. So they recently released a trailer at all your fucking favorites. Mr. Doom, Dr. Doom, sorry. Well, maybe I don't know. I might have just made that one up. But definitely a Dr. Strange in a Black Panther, Iron Man, Spider Man, a bunch of other fucking people. Rocket Raccoon, or whatever his name is. Adrian (1:58:05) I'm sorry. Go. Cappo (1:58:31) And yeah, it just looks like Overwatch, but it's Marvel and they're doing fucking, you know, Overwatch style shit. So yeah, maybe slightly jankier, but you know, it could be. Adrian (1:58:40) Yeah, I mean it could be good. It'd be entirely fun to play as Spider-Man in a level that I like. That'd be good, but it won't be good. That's the thing. It'll be bad. Cappo (1:58:46) Yeah, are you... Yeah, it won't be. And I mean, like, are you a... Are you a Marvel guy, Adrien? Adrian (1:58:56) No, I think that the Marvel movies are just soulless cookie-cutter garbage. That it's offensive that there are so many of them. The two good ones are both made by Taika Waititi, Ragnarok and Love and Thunder. And Civil War was pretty good, but the other ones are not good, in my opinion. Cappo (1:59:00) Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I definitely, yeah, definitely don't mind the old guardians of the galaxy. Um, but I mean, that's pretty much where I stop. Um. Adrian (1:59:23) Oh yeah, they're pretty fun. Actually, they're good actually. Cappo (1:59:28) Yeah, yeah. And I kind of forget that they're even Marvel movies because they're kind of just a sci-fi fucking movie. But yeah, the rest of them are just completely not interested. Adrian (1:59:38) Yeah, like none of the characters in it. I think that's probably why they work. None of the characters are like your sort of Marvel mainstays. Cappo (1:59:44) Yeah. Just use Super Heroes. Adrian (1:59:50) Yeah, I mean, not either. It's like, I didn't have no fucking idea who Star-Lord was before it came out. Gamora, no idea. Drax, no idea. Rocket Raccoon, nope. So, you know, they come out and they can't have a bit of freedom. It's like, you always want to be like the B tier, I think. That's where you get the good stuff. Like, you know, Andor, for example, incredible show. Because it's your... Cappo (1:59:51) They're just... They're just dudes. Yeah. Yeah. They have to work a little bit harder to make it work. Adrian (2:00:19) Yeah, you're rogue, so you're rogue. Why not? It's not to have Jedi's in it. It's not your big, big players. So you get less suit attention and then you can do stuff that is interesting and good instead of stuff that's bad and sells. I think that's what it is, in my opinion. Okay. Cappo (2:00:33) Yeah, right. I think you're 100% on it. That's 100% the fucking that's what it is. Big time. Um, all right. So next, mate, Apex legends, world NA finals have been postponed following a massive security hack where, and dude, I don't know if you've seen the fucking video of this shit, but it's wild. Basically what happens is some dude gets hacked live on stream and literally what happens is some hacker has hacked into. Adrian (2:00:42) Yeah, I think that's what it is. Yeah. Cappo (2:01:01) the fucking final servers and injected hacks into one of the finalists' computer. It's wild. Fucking crazy. It is insane and kind of scary. Adrian (2:01:12) Yeah, that's outrageous. Like, it's like putting a drop gun on somebody. Cappo (2:01:20) So yeah, you'd be fucking spewing. But yeah, so they're post-blending that. And the final one, Adrian, not a big surprise. GameSpot seems to be seriously suffering with sales decline, leading to job cutting to control costs. I don't know, I kind of get the feeling that most people are probably buying a lot of their games digitally these days. I know I am, I don't know about you, mate, but like, it's just a lot of the time, it's just a lot more convenient. Like, what does that mean levels? Adrian (2:01:42) Yeah, I'm doing it. God, it's so much more convenient, man. Like, I'll buy a game physically if it's like on special or if I've got a bunch of J.B. Hyde vouchers for Hyde vouchers or something. But like, for the most part, even if it's more expensive than it is in the store, I still don't have to go to the store and that's worth money to me. You know, I'll pay a premium. I don't have to leave my house. Yeah. And then it's just on your computer. I mean, on your console. Cappo (2:02:03) Yeah. It's a fucking win win, isn't it? Yeah. Yep. But even then it's generally not that much different, you know, like, AB Games tends to put a bit of a premium on their prices. And it's kind of just almost rude in some ways. It's like, dude, you're a fucking games wholesaler, and you're charging me more. Whereas like JB Hi-Fi just selling everything and charging me less. And it's just, you know, a bit ridiculous, personally, that's how I feel. But Adrian (2:02:23) Yeah. Yeah. It just really seemed to be a point to buy a game from a game store rather than anywhere else that sells games. You know, which is probably the root of the problem. Yeah. Cappo (2:02:38) Exactly right. Bit rude overall. But look, speaking of root overall, that's the end of the show. That's it for Nito done. Adrian, thank you for joining me for two hours by and talking shit about a whole bunch of different video games. It's been an absolute pleasure having you here, mate. It's been bloody wonderful. Adrian (2:02:55) I had a wonderful time. Oh, that's great. Thank you for having me. I had a blast. Cappo (2:03:03) Oh mate, bloody ripping. We will have grizzly gaming back next week. So, you know, pull up your socks and get ready for a bit of the grizzler. And Adrian, we'll definitely have you back again. Bloody thoroughly enjoy these chats. Now for everyone at home that would like to find us, you know, wherever, you know, ogr.show, that is our website. You'll find all of our, you know, links there. You know, we've got our Twitter on there. Adrian (2:03:20) Yeah. Cappo (2:03:29) YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, we got bloody TikTok on there. If you want to watch this show live, it's linked to our Twitch, which is twitch.tv slash oceanic gaming radio. We go live every Monday, not every second Monday night now. 7pm Australian Western Standard Time. You can also join us on Discord if you would like to chat about things, you know, on Discord, that's an option. Otherwise, if you'd like to financially support us, you can go to patreon.com slash ojashow. And, you know, just pass money. and we'd appreciate that. Anyways, we'll see you guys next time. Hopefully this episode sounds okay because we're using a new platform to record. We'll give another test again next week, see how it looks. But regardless, thanks for your time. Peace out, see you at a fortnight. Bye.